meta game adept/apprentice OBSOLETE

[Huttensohn]

I don't know who of you plays a lot of Multiplayer at the moment - I do and I have to say that adept changes the metagame quite a bit. Now you have a cheap unit with a range 8 30 damage attack that can be produced from town center
undead has lich from Tc, less health, 5 turns, and necromancer, 3 turns, build only from crypt.

Also, human magic range is cheaper to upgrade. you are seeing yourself easily outgunned and out ranged, your crypt sniped away by a single magic arrow.

The magic barrier is also very very strong, especially in small games or in games with some crucial choke point. in human vs undead you block the choke points and snipe away. there is nothing for undead except magic arrow with a range over seven, their archers don't gain range.

I welcome the adept as balance against orc, but it unbalances the game for undead.

another thing, it completely makes siege units obsolete. Why should I research ballistics first, then build a expensive, slow moving unit that can't move and shoot if I can just create a cheap 3 turn unit that comes right out of the box.

The same is true for the ent thrower. at the moment, completely outclassed by apprentice or other ranged unit, at the moment, I don't see a single niche for it.

for elf, the apprentice changes less than they adept does for humans because, you had Bladesinger anyway and without the barrier, it's also not so strong.

BTW I'm not against magic arrow as an anti building thing in general.

[makazuwr32]

Magic arrow later will loose its anti-building bonuses and will do only pure fixed damage, that was decided at least year ago. Thus both adept and appretince will loose their anti-building properties.

Necromancer maybe will be put into tc in place of banshee later.

Prease keep that in mind.

Also factories will become later much more tough.

[Huttensohn]

under those circumstances, it seems justifiable. until then, however, the metagame has shifted.

Will there be additional anti building units and spells?

[DreJaDe]

Shhhh
They won't notice how OP it is

[Huttensohn]

They already have. the food players have. But yeah, that's bad news for new players who think they need siege units and meele to destroy buildings.

[makazuwr32]

Indeed there will be anti-building abilities when we will be going to add elemental spells.
All fire based abilities and all earth based abilities will have anti-building bonuses.

Alas unlike magic missle they will not have such high unit variation.

[Savra]

Since I basically modified all races siege units in this update I could probably do that change to the magic missile now.

This way it doesn't take any use from the ranged siege units.

I've actually met a few complaints about those anyway.

[Savra]

Especially in the case of races who already have good ranged siege options.

[Huttensohn]

I have to say as long as it is not replaced with other viable options, this is not the way to go. for some races it's the only viable siege option. I have to be honest except for orcs and scale (who don't have it as the only rave AFAIK) it's pretty much the only competitive option.

again, if u compare human siege engines or ent throwers to a 3 cost, no tech unit, that can be trained from the very beginning, they are just no match.

[Huttensohn]

but of course aoe and even higher damage or range are a factor.

[Midonik]

Youre probably right about the ent thrower, however human trebuchets range makes it a way better siege option in the late game.

[Huttensohn]

the plan is, make buildings tougher and non siege units worse against buildings right?

I think this is a good idea, at the moment it's the best strategy to one shot snipe away enemy buildings, even if your unit gets killed in the process.

[Huttensohn]

your probably right, I don't have much experience with trebuchet. can it enter wagons in the current version?

the question is also - do you even make it to late game before a quicker approach has defeated you.

one example -
I play ocean map a lot. I can load two mages into a cargo ship, they jump out on a neighbourhing island and then the devastate everything with two fireballs. if I uses adepts instead I can at least snipe away one fortress oder two weaker buildings with magic arrow.

it I use trebuchet, I need one turn to pack, then enter ship, than jump out of the ship, one turn unpack in which its a perfect target and propably gets destroyed.

but of course, tougher buildings will just require real, long term sieges and not the quick, rapid thing that is strongest now

[Midonik]

It depends on what map you are playing of course, there definetely are situiation in which the late game wont happen and situations where it will.
Generally when you seem like 5 enemy mega buildings, you need trebuchets, period.

[Savra]

Actually, I did some changes on a lot of the siege units so they're either more maneuverable, or more useful.

They do come with certain set backs as a cost though, but this applies to all siege units including elves, orcs, and some of undeads.

[makazuwr32]

I must add that this drawback that was added is only for ranged siege units. Melee siege units in most cases do not have actual drawbacks.

[Stratego (dev)]

some posts says some changes already happened - is here any open thing?

[makazuwr32]

No. Magic missile has no bonuses now so it is obsolete.