Russian siege artillery — "Onager"

[makazuwr32]

Onager was a series of rather light (200-400 millimeters and up tp 4 torns weight) russian siege cannons. In total there were made more than 160 such cannons.

Each cannon had 2 types of projectiles - regular cannon ball to destroy walls and explosive ball with gunpowder inside that was used to destroy insides of cities or against close places infantries.
Each cannon was able to shoot depending on size 24-96 times per day. The bigger was cannon the longer it needed to reload.

Now to stats:
Cost - 8 turns, trainable at upgraded siege workshop (only in upgraded!), requires gunpowder tech.
Hp - 30
Attack - 0 (in transport mode), 100 (100% miss chance against movable targets, in siege mode only), 50/25/12 (same as catapult miss chance + burning weapon passive, in assault mode only); no counter attack in all variants
Range - 0 +4 minimal range, +12 maximum range in siege mode, 0 +3 minimal range, +9 maximum range in assault mode
Armor - 2/8 (made mostly from iron and steel it was nearly completely immune to piercing-like projectiles)
Speed - 1 in transport mode, 0 in siege and assault modes
Sight - 4 in transport mode, 7 in assault mode, 10 in siege mode
Spell resist - 50%

Bonuses (in siege mode only):
200% to fortifications, 600% to megas

Abilities:
Transform to siege mode
Transform to assault mode
Transform to transport mode
In siege mode:
Shoot cannon ball - +4 minimal range and +12 maximum range for unit (no action cost), has cooldown 3 and initial cooldown
In assault mode:
Shoot explosive ball - +3 minimal range and +9 maximum range for unit (no action cost), has cooldown 3 and initial cooldown


Bonuses could be higher if needed.

[Endru1241]

Over 200mm caliber was already considered large. Such cannons would weight few tonnes, so they were definitely not so light. They were siege cannons through and through.
Just because few monsters twice bigger than them existed - doesn't mean they weren't huge. Especially since most of those monsters were only casted in late 16th century or later.

As for balance - range 9 and 50 damage with AoE?
Am I understanding it correctly?

If so we would have to make 8 speed cavalry with 22+ attack to counter it.

Also - onager is the actual precise name for catapult. Catapultae was more category name.

[makazuwr32]

This type was named precisely after roman catapults - "onagers".

As for AOE - it requires 3 turns to load after any transform, 3 turns cooldown and 0 speed.
it is actuallly easy to counter and it is not that op as you think because for those 3 turns 1 maxed catapult can shoot 3 times and can move as well while shooting.
I suggest for name to use
Bombard "Onager"

[Morningwarrior]

+12 in siege mode?,is a little unbalanced no?but i like the onager ideia.

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

I mean it sounds good on a conceptual level. I look forwards to this unit.

[Morningwarrior]

Me to

[phoenixffyrnig]

... trainable at upgraded siege workshop (only in upgraded!)...

I think this is a really interesting idea. Upgraded factories really offer rather little benefit for their cost - if some of the elite/advanced units and techs were only possible after the factory was upgraded then that would be pretty sweet. What are your thoughts @Endru1241, anything like that in the pipeline?

I do still feel the need for a boost to the attacking side in late-game siege warfare, especially as tower spam is a rampant tactic in multiplayer. Eg, élite cannon, the most "advanced" siege machine, takes 4 shots to deal with a fortress with both building upgrades, 3 shots to deal with a cannon tower that out-ranges it (and almost one-shots it, just add any archer) and a full 11 shots to take down a fort.

I'm fully aware that trebuchet does significantly more damage to fortified buildings, but as has been discussed elsewhere, early cannon superceded trebs due to logistical convenience. I really feel we need a killer piece of artillery in the game, about as advanced as our timeframe allows. I know a +1 to siège range tech has been mentioned, (which would be great considering we have a +1 to defences range tech), but by Thor, Mars, Ares, Morrigan and all the other gods of War, grant us the power to smite our cowardly foe with a weapon that is the pinnacle of murderous technology!

[Endru1241]

I was thinking of adding generic bombard, because current cannon is representing more of a smaller caliber, that can be somehow used as field artillery.
Bombard would need to be specialised, so it's not very good on field, but similarly murderous to buildings as trebuchets.
I only wonder how to make it so that trebuchet still have some usage.
Maybe indeed like makazuwr proposition - some even longer deploying time and total incapability of on move attacks.

Russian specific artillery could be then introduced as stronger, version, unique to slavic culture.

[L4cus]

I have an ieea forit:
1. It will have 3 stages: packed, de9loyong, deployed
Packed: the cannokiis packed for easy transpprtation
Deploying: the cannon is getting deployed, it will take a whilessince its a big artillery piece, hard to handle
Deoloyed: the gun is ready to be firedand its deployed

2. Aviable transformation depends on the stage:
Packed: can transfrom into deploying stage
Depñoyint: can transform both packed and deployed stage
Deployed: can transform into deploying stage

3. The fact that it takes 2 turns to shit makes it prwtty vulnerable and weak: i suggest production restricted to siege buiding (not castle or any other building capable of produce regular cannon)

4. I also suggest a 7 cost unit...and a rebalance of regular cannon to 5 turns...

[Endru1241]

1-3 sound quite right.
4. Cannoneer for 5 is bad idea.
Currently it is quite balanced on the whole and only has hard time against cannon towers.

[L4cus]

so 8 turns for this artillery piece? kinda expensive...wonder how to balance it