Mangonel

[Morningwarrior]

Hp:12
Atk:8
Rng:5
(minimun 1)
Spd:3
5.0 in road
6.7 in stone road
Sight:3
Armor:0/3
Cost:4
Construction bonus:-60%
Mend bonus:0%
Act:2
M.R:30%
Size:1X1
Same bonuses than catapult
Class:burnable,siege machine
Maked only by builders
Description:
mangonel is a siege weapon similar to a catapult, smaller and without much range but quicker and easier to be made the mangonel can be very efficient at the time of a quick attack on walls and giving cover to melee troops, keep it out of fire and enemy troops

[Morningwarrior]

this time I tried my best and will provide a pixelated image of the unit

[L4cus]

i have always wanted to see ur art morningwarrior . will be waiting for it

[Badnorth]

i have always wanted to see ur art morningwarrior . will be waiting for it

+1

[Hyuhjhih]

[SirPat]

LOL

[Morningwarrior]

Ok, I'll be honest, I don't know how to make pixel art, my limit and I only give ideas without attention,I need someone to make a pixel art of this unit

[Endru1241]

There is always time to learn new things.

Many people agree with statement - "You have to try everything" - but strangely enough it's always about alcohol, drugs, food, sometimes sex, travel or some unusual experiences. Almost never about e.g. learning physics, history, programming or graphic editing.

[godOfKings]

My love for drawing was almost natural, it started with playing age of empires 2 and being obsessed with animations of knights so much that anytime i was bored in class i would start doodling random soldiers from age of empires in the back of my notebook, so i could quickly transfer my drawing skills to pixel arts after age of strategy gave me a platform and incentive to start learning pixel arts

[Morningwarrior]

so it's time for me to try.

[Morningwarrior]

One more thing
how big does pixel art have to be? @Endru1241

[L4cus]

for aos its 32x32, if the image overlaps that size it can be 64x32 like tower or pikemen (i think heavy catapult is 64x32)

[Badnorth]

One more thing
how big does pixel art have to be? @Endru1241

For units, it is:
Width: 32
Height: 64

Or

Both 32.

[Endru1241]

As already answered - either 32x32 or 32x64.

I really wait with great interest to first Morningwarrior art.

[L4cus]

@Morningwarrior how is the image going?

[L4cus]

Hp:12
Atk:8
Rng:5
(minimun 1)
Spd:3
5.0 in road
6.7 in stone road
Sight:3
Armor:0/3
Cost:4
Construction bonus:-60%
Mend bonus:0%
Act:2
M.R:30%
Size:1X1
Same bonuses than catapult
Class:burnable,siege machine
Maked only by builders
Description:
mangonel is a siege weapon similar to a catapult, smaller and without much range but quicker and easier to be made the mangonel can be very efficient at the time of a quick attack on walls and giving cover to melee troops, keep it out of fire and enemy troops

I think the stats are ok, but speed is quite too high for a siege machine with 2 actions and 4 turns cost. i suggest 2 speed and a packed version. the main difference with catapult would be the capability of the stand version. btw i think it could be produced at the roman castrum once it is added

[Endru1241]

We can discuss stats later on.
Now we are all waiting for @Morningwarrior image.

[Morningwarrior]

We can discuss stats later on.
Now we are all waiting for @Morningwarrior image.

I trying my best,i not will offer a awnful pixel image,so maybe take a little bit more...

[Morningwarrior]

well, after a long time trying to do the best I could I ended up managing to do this, it didn't turn out the way I planned, especially the coloration, so much so that pixly in some aspects doesn't help me, but if you're judging at first glance I I don't think I'm a catastrophe as I expected, but in the future I hope to get an update on this model and make it better and clearer, mainly by improving the color, which was what frustrated me the most in this spox

[godOfKings]

i think its too wide, width should b 32 px, height can b 64px

[Endru1241]

Here - this is correct width.

Unfortunately image becomes really pixelated after resizing.

Also - try to get editor, that actually can deal with transparency (or change settings) - the background needs to be transparent - otherwise we'd see white square in the game.

[L4cus]

it looks like it were packed...maybe less 3d perspective ?

[Hyuhjhih]

Working and modifying from an existing layout is way more better for beginning with. And in this case, you can pick trebuchet and cats (cause mangonel is more related to treb than cats as they are called traction trebs, but still have the catapult like spoons) ofc , so you don't have to worry about a drastic difference in sizes. And if you want to change the stances, you can surely experiment from it.

[Endru1241]

Working and modifying from an existing layout is way more better for beginning with. And in this case, you can pick trebuchet and cats (cause mangonel is more related to treb than cats as they are called traction trebs, but still have the catapult like spoons) ofc , so you don't have to worry about a drastic difference in sizes. And if you want to change the stances, you can surely experiment from it.

Naming is actually the worse thing about various siege machines.

We have essentially 4 main types of artillery machines capable of throwing stones:
Ballista

Onager

Traction Trebuchet (Mangonel)

Trebuchet


In the first image we have ballista. Torsion powered two armed siege engine, that could launch stones or bolts, depending on how it was currently set up.
Coming from greek βαλλίστρα (ballístra), from βάλλω (bállō, “throw”).
So basically it could mean just any throwing device.
Greeks could have named any kind of siege machine throwing projectiles like that.

Then there is roman onager. Torsion powered one armed siege engine capable of throwing what it had in sling or bucket\bowl.
But very often it is named catapult from Ancient Greek: καταπέλτης (katapeltēs), itself from κατά (kata), "downwards" and πάλλω (pallō), "to toss, to hurl".
That is a problem, because in various Greek historians treaties it was the other way around.
Bolt throwing devices were named catapults and stone throwing - ballista.
Probably romans understood it wrong, because from purely linguistic perspective it makes more sense, that stone throwers, which often shoot in arc trajectory would be named to hurl downwards and bolt throwers, being more of a field artillery with straight trajectory - general throwers.
That's why sometimes there is seen name lithobolos (Greek: λιθοβόλος) - literally stone thrower.

Then we have third one - Mangonel (Greek mágganon or mangonon, meaning "engine of war") - man powered (sometimes with some help of tension of main arm) one armed siege engine capable of throwing what is inside sling/bucket .
Again there is huge misconeption going on, because many historians described onagers by this term (principles of work, look).
That's because nobody could believe, that great technology of torsion engines would be lost in European middle ages.
To be truthful we don't know if it was really lost or just intentionally not used because of high costs of skein spring.
But there is only really one torsion powered device used in Europe with solid historical evidence and it's springald - a type of ballista throwing bolts. Although very briefly.
Because of controversy with the name in modern times it's often safer to use name Traction Trebuchet.
Many games present types of onagers (e.g. they name catapult whatever is throwing huge stones and mangonel if it throws many little rocks) under that name, so we need to precise here what author ment.

And the last one - trebuchet from French trebuchier (“to overthrow, topple”) - human-gravity powered one armed siege engine capable of throwing whatever is inside sling.
It's often precised as counterweight trebuchet.


In modern nomenclature catapult is general term for all kind of siege devices, that could launch projectiles at long distances without use of gunpowder, rockets or any other propellant. Purely mechanically.
But just as greeks naming everything ballista once - catapult name could have been used as that too at some point of time.
Unfortunately mangonel name was also used in equally general understanding.

[L4cus]

is this unit rejected?

[Endru1241]

is this unit rejected?

Why?

It just lacks an image mostly.
And balance can be discussed later on.

I threw this long post with something like a lecture to give some info how exactly should the unit be planned with an image.
So a name change with this image or something closer to actual traction trebuchet.

[L4cus]

i would just preffer an onager...mangonel is just like u said a treb...

[Hyuhjhih]

Wow thats a whole lot of information that got intentionally leaked from your intelligence endru.

So, what we are waiting for is a good looking image from morningwarrior .

[Morningwarrior]

oh bad i ended up not answering you guys, actually i've been pretty busy these last few months so i ended up getting a lot offline, but for now i'll owe this mangonel designe, i have other plans to elaborate and i'm also doing some maps to enter the game's campaigns, but thanks for the tips and your support, I wouldn't have had the courage if it wasn't for that...but I'll still make a mangonel with a good design, and pixly doesn't help me either a lot, but i have an idea of ​​what i can do.