Inspired by L4cus I decided to suggest this
Byzantine Outpost
Idk what to name their factory.
Specialty
Can make mercs stay forever with aura as long as it is inside the aura
Range: 2
Or
Skill
A free pay merc skill for a single merc unit that increases its time limit
CD: 1
Range 5
...
Foot units
Skutatos or Stratiotai
Main infantry of the Byzantines
Cost: 2
Lvl1/2
HP: 16/20
Atk: 10/13
M. Armor:1/2
R. Armor:3/3
Speed: 3
Bonus
Same as swordsman
...
Byzantine Archer
(Psiloi or Taxotai)
Archer
A form of skirmisher in the Byzantine army
2-3 turns
Hp: 12-15
Atk: 6-7
Range: 5-6
Speed: 4
Bonus
Same as a normal archer
I saw somewhere where they also used shields. Maybe instead of 4 speed it could just be changed for some P. Armor.
...
Byzantine horse archer
4 turns
HP: 24
Atk: 5
Range: 4-5
Spd: 5
Both armors are 0
Turn: 2
Same Bonus as Mongolia horse archer
Apparently, the Byzantines are also renowned for their archery. Adopting technology from most of their neighbors like the steppes, the Turks, and other such cultures to step up their game and train their troops with the best knowledge they have learned.
Another suggestion is a cataphract archer though kinda boring
5 cost
HP: 30
Atk: 5
Range: 5
Speed 5
M/R Armor: 3/2
Same bonus as horse archer
There's also another that I read which is interesting.
A slinger cav
4 cost
HP: 20
Armor: both 0
Atk: 4
Range: 4
Turn: 2
Speed 5
Same bonus as slingers
Available in TC
...
Akritai or Tasinarioi
A light cav that is used for Raiding. At least the one that I'm going for with this idea
Honestly, this could just be a normal one, not a specialized one though there's already a raider in existence.
4 turns
HP: 15
Atk: 4
Speed: 6
Armor: both 0
Sight: 8
Ability
Distrupt buildings
Can disrupt enemy factories and building disabling them for 3-4 turns
CD: 1-2
Range: melee
Same bonus as scout cav
There's like a curse skill in aof which is basically what I meant.
Only available in Byzantine factory
...
Pronoiars or Tagmata heavy cav
Byzantine cataphracts facing the normans, they took inspiration and adapted.
5 Cost
With upgrades? (6 cost)
HP: 30/34
Atk: 9/11
Armor: 5/4
P.Armor: 2/2
Speed: 4/5
Bonus
Same as Norman cav
Available in both Stable and Byzantine Outpost
Byzantine Outpost
Re: Byzantine Outpost
idk what i did to inspire u, but sounds nice!
toxotai btw is not restricted to bizantine empire, instead, toxotai was a word used from the classic greek period, i think it refered to foreign archers, as well as other skirmishers...
i supose these are only units to add, since we cant forget about varangian guard as well as other units from the steppes and also something like nicean cavalry, balkanic auxiliars, etc...
taliking about auxiliars, bizantes used that system, and i think we could kinda copy it from the roman rooster with a different effect: they dont have bizante tag/category, but the tech is cheap...maybe this bizantine auxilia could have steppe riders, syrian archers, balkan heavy infantry, etc. just as an idea. having byzantine proper units is ok as well
i was also thinking about an aura like mercenary commander with a +2 attack for mercenaries
toxotai btw is not restricted to bizantine empire, instead, toxotai was a word used from the classic greek period, i think it refered to foreign archers, as well as other skirmishers...
i supose these are only units to add, since we cant forget about varangian guard as well as other units from the steppes and also something like nicean cavalry, balkanic auxiliars, etc...
taliking about auxiliars, bizantes used that system, and i think we could kinda copy it from the roman rooster with a different effect: they dont have bizante tag/category, but the tech is cheap...maybe this bizantine auxilia could have steppe riders, syrian archers, balkan heavy infantry, etc. just as an idea. having byzantine proper units is ok as well
i was also thinking about an aura like mercenary commander with a +2 attack for mercenaries
Re: Byzantine Outpost
Yeah, many words are Greek since they are basically Greek also.
I also planned to suggest their leader to be named "Strategos" which is like the equivalent of a lord or daimyo in other cultures which is basically also a title in ancient Greece.
I remember the "theme" system but I don't think they necessarily like Auxiliary but more same in the feudal societies. The other one is the mercenaries.
In my suggestion. I made them more to be generalized. There are indeed others they used but I think they could just be added to other cultures many of which were hired also in the Byzantine army.
The Varangian guard on the other hand. It was hard for me to suggest it since there are already Varangians in-game. I kinda don't want them to be mercs but part of my suggestions already fulfill that gap which the aura and skill for the mercs.
I also planned to suggest their leader to be named "Strategos" which is like the equivalent of a lord or daimyo in other cultures which is basically also a title in ancient Greece.
I remember the "theme" system but I don't think they necessarily like Auxiliary but more same in the feudal societies. The other one is the mercenaries.
In my suggestion. I made them more to be generalized. There are indeed others they used but I think they could just be added to other cultures many of which were hired also in the Byzantine army.
The Varangian guard on the other hand. It was hard for me to suggest it since there are already Varangians in-game. I kinda don't want them to be mercs but part of my suggestions already fulfill that gap which the aura and skill for the mercs.
Re: Byzantine Outpost
i think varangian guards is a must be added unit and could be added along current varangian without problem i think! higher cost is obviously needed as well
i was also thinking on the theme and how to make use of it, but nothing came to my mind
i was also thinking on the theme and how to make use of it, but nothing came to my mind
Re: Byzantine Outpost
Byzantine culture is a subset of hellenic.
I see no reason to add it as something different.
At least there are a lot more reasons for other cultural additions.
I see no reason to add it as something different.
At least there are a lot more reasons for other cultural additions.
Age of Strategy design leader
Re: Byzantine Outpost
Idea Over
Honestly, I thought the culture is distinct enough which is why I suggested this.
Honestly, I thought the culture is distinct enough which is why I suggested this.
Re: Byzantine Outpost
Some units could be introduced into hellenic culture even right now (like in upcoming months).
Cataphract archer, Toxotai, maybe Akritai or Tasinarioi.
Skutatos or Stratiotai could also be added as 2 turn infantry (with stats to be changed)
Idea for outpost speciality can be used for mercenary camp.
Horse archer being as effective as steppe main unit is not very probable.
Slinger cavalry was already proposed once, but I am pretty sure it could never work.
I specifically tried to find anything about it and came upon sling forum, where they even tried to test it in reality.
Conclusion is that vertical throw is impossible and while theoretically horizontal overhead throw is possible - it would be insane and not very effective to do it from horse.
Any cavalry mentioned having slings (and I haven't found any such mention) would have to use them on foot, acting like dragoons.
In ancient world sling was actually very common - it's cheapest and lightest possible equipment, that in advantageous conditions allowed for some shooting ability.
The drawback is required skill - you'd have to be learning it since being a kid to achieve good combat effectiveness.
So just like we don't present every kind of heavy infantry/cavalry with shooting ability, even though in most cases they carried a bow or later crossbow - if it was emergency ranged weapon with not much effect on the scale of whole unit - it can be skipped to simplify.
And if it would be main weapon then people using it would be too poor to have a horse.
Cataphract archer, Toxotai, maybe Akritai or Tasinarioi.
Skutatos or Stratiotai could also be added as 2 turn infantry (with stats to be changed)
Idea for outpost speciality can be used for mercenary camp.
Horse archer being as effective as steppe main unit is not very probable.
Slinger cavalry was already proposed once, but I am pretty sure it could never work.
I specifically tried to find anything about it and came upon sling forum, where they even tried to test it in reality.
Conclusion is that vertical throw is impossible and while theoretically horizontal overhead throw is possible - it would be insane and not very effective to do it from horse.
Any cavalry mentioned having slings (and I haven't found any such mention) would have to use them on foot, acting like dragoons.
In ancient world sling was actually very common - it's cheapest and lightest possible equipment, that in advantageous conditions allowed for some shooting ability.
The drawback is required skill - you'd have to be learning it since being a kid to achieve good combat effectiveness.
So just like we don't present every kind of heavy infantry/cavalry with shooting ability, even though in most cases they carried a bow or later crossbow - if it was emergency ranged weapon with not much effect on the scale of whole unit - it can be skipped to simplify.
And if it would be main weapon then people using it would be too poor to have a horse.
Age of Strategy design leader
Re: Byzantine Outpost
I would try to make suggestions about them but I don't know if it would look good with the current Greek line.
Wait. Mercenary camp? Can you expound?
In the slinger case. Or maybe, they aren't really trained in it which is why they can't? I remember cases where people test things, then thinking it's impossible because they can't do it only to find out that they are just not trained nor pro at it.
A great example is the bow techniques which I don't even know the name... Not a great example....
Then the sword in the back which they thought is impossible then a YT guy named shad prove that it can be done easily. Though that wasn't really a medieval tech but just to prove that it isn't as fantasy thing as people make it out to be..
In any case, I won't suggest that anymore. Just want to bring something.
Wait. Mercenary camp? Can you expound?
In the slinger case. Or maybe, they aren't really trained in it which is why they can't? I remember cases where people test things, then thinking it's impossible because they can't do it only to find out that they are just not trained nor pro at it.
A great example is the bow techniques which I don't even know the name... Not a great example....
Then the sword in the back which they thought is impossible then a YT guy named shad prove that it can be done easily. Though that wasn't really a medieval tech but just to prove that it isn't as fantasy thing as people make it out to be..
In any case, I won't suggest that anymore. Just want to bring something.
Re: Byzantine Outpost
Three basic ways of using sling:
- horizontal (sideways)
- vertical overhand
-vertical underhand
3rd image doesn't show it properly, but all techniques requires almost whole body muscles to work to execute it.
Now try to do it from top of the horse, when you have think of the balance to not fall.
Plus we have to remember lack of strirrups, which would prevent more standing position.
Impossible is maybe too strong of a word, but even assuming skilful warrior capable of both horseride and sling throwing trained to to id at once on a horse trained to not panic, nor turn too much by leg moves (normally used to steer the horse) - motion of the body would still be limited, thus main advantage of sling over short bow - range, would be decreased.
Probably along with power.
Main point however is the fact, that sling was a poor men weapon.
Poor kids would try to hunt small animals with sling, while wealthy ones would learn horseride, melee fighting, bow, proper usage of armor.
1 vs 1 bow is superior weapon - much higher potential damage (all it takes is single hit anywhere on the body and enemy can bleed to death), possibility to aim on closer distance, much less space needed to execute attack, possibility to attack from horse, as mainly upper body works on shooting, less movement allowed heavier armor, without impacting attack too much.
Meanwhile sling was superior in battle en masse.
Higher range, harder to be protected from for elites (best protection against sling bullets is thick clothing, while every type of pricy, metal armor granting good resistance towards both cuts and arrows, gives poor protection vs sling), fear factor of "cursed deaths" without any bleeding (people dying a day or few after battle, probably from hematoma or maybe some organ failure).
And much more importantly - as it's cheap weapon, readily available to poor people - many trained with it, so recruiting slingers was cheaper.
For the same price you'd amass more slingers, thus decreasing or even eliminating difference in damage.
- horizontal (sideways)
- vertical overhand
-vertical underhand
3rd image doesn't show it properly, but all techniques requires almost whole body muscles to work to execute it.
Now try to do it from top of the horse, when you have think of the balance to not fall.
Plus we have to remember lack of strirrups, which would prevent more standing position.
Impossible is maybe too strong of a word, but even assuming skilful warrior capable of both horseride and sling throwing trained to to id at once on a horse trained to not panic, nor turn too much by leg moves (normally used to steer the horse) - motion of the body would still be limited, thus main advantage of sling over short bow - range, would be decreased.
Probably along with power.
Main point however is the fact, that sling was a poor men weapon.
Poor kids would try to hunt small animals with sling, while wealthy ones would learn horseride, melee fighting, bow, proper usage of armor.
1 vs 1 bow is superior weapon - much higher potential damage (all it takes is single hit anywhere on the body and enemy can bleed to death), possibility to aim on closer distance, much less space needed to execute attack, possibility to attack from horse, as mainly upper body works on shooting, less movement allowed heavier armor, without impacting attack too much.
Meanwhile sling was superior in battle en masse.
Higher range, harder to be protected from for elites (best protection against sling bullets is thick clothing, while every type of pricy, metal armor granting good resistance towards both cuts and arrows, gives poor protection vs sling), fear factor of "cursed deaths" without any bleeding (people dying a day or few after battle, probably from hematoma or maybe some organ failure).
And much more importantly - as it's cheap weapon, readily available to poor people - many trained with it, so recruiting slingers was cheaper.
For the same price you'd amass more slingers, thus decreasing or even eliminating difference in damage.
Age of Strategy design leader