Animations - do we need them?

[Stratego (dev)]

This is a topic about animations and discussing if we need them in AOS or AOF or in other versions.

we talk about here:
1. idle animation whole unit (idle = a standing unit that does nothing at the moment)
a) fulltime animation (always, in a loop)
b) random special animations (eg. in 30-40sec of standing it start changing the wepon in hands or moves its legs a bit, or does some movement)

2. idle animation only some features of the unit (eg. flies around a zombie, a animating flames on fire archer, waving flag on a unit that has a flag/banner and so on)

3. movement animations (what about directions? same animation to any direction?)

4. attack animations (what about directions? same animation to any direction?)

5. dying animation

6. damaging animation

Questions to discuss
Q1: do we need animations at all? do u want to see them in game?
Q2: if so, how do u imagine animations considering the current imageset (keeping them, and adding only animation in the same style they are)
Q3: or do we need totally new imageset to have proper animations.

[COOLguy]

idk right now. It may be cool. What would it do to the file size and load time?

But I don't want dying animations - like bloody or graphic animations in the game.

[Ness]

I think at animations shouldnt be in aos.

[DoomCarrot]

Well, this is more of a strategy game, not really meant for cool graphics or anything...

Animations would probably be kinda awkward though, because everything is a sprite

[Stratego (dev)]

have u seen the new zombie in AOF? what about such animation? (that is type 2: "idle animation only some features of the unit" kind)

[ejm29]

I think idle animations is a cool idea it's not of dreadful importantance to the game, but it would be a nice touch. Saying that I against moving, attacking and dying animations. As they are very unnecessary and would make the loading times longer, plus it would be a real hassle to make 3-4 animations for all the existing and new units.

Im pretty sure we dont need completely new images, editing the existing once sould be easy enough

[Stratego (dev)]

the zombie type 2: "idle animation only some features of the unit" kind animation:

[ejm29]

That looks really cool!

[RiverRaider 1097]

I think you hit a home run the first time, movement vs load time is not worth it to me if that's how it would be )

[Darkknight]

It would be ok if there were animations but there should be a button to turn off animations for people who doesn't like the animations

[RiverRaider 1097]

Now that's a good idea gives us a chance to see if we like it or not, I believe it would be worth the effort to develop!

[COOLguy]

It would be ok if there were animations but there should be a button to turn off animations for people who doesn't like the animations

That is my vote for whatever animations we have, too.

I am favorable to idle animations, but against all if it adds to load time or whatnot.

[DoomCarrot]

the zombie type 2: "idle animation only some features of the unit" kind animation:

Yeah stuff like that is cool, and maybe the fire archers arrow could be flaming, and stuff like that...

But I think it would be awkward to have animations for everything...

[Stratego (dev)]

ok, i see very fine and little animations - most of you say.
so the type 2: "idle animation only some features of the unit" kind animation.

ok, lets try these, if any unit idea we make we can consider making little animation on them.

speed: i dont think it would harm the performance, but we will see if we have a few.

[Alexander82]

We might try, i've nemever made animations so i don't know if i can continue producing graphics, but the idea wouldn't be a bad one

[patroid]

Hi
Is that ok??
Or should also the fire down lrft move??

Patroid

[Stratego (dev)]

down: yes but almost innticable
arrow: does not seems like flaming, and there too: we need one almost innoticable.

[balint]

Hi

What about a touching animation?
When you select the unit it might raise it's weapon, prepare it's shield or draw up hos vow/crossbow...

[Stratego (dev)]

very good idea!

[balint]

How could I make an animation? I would gladly try on my tablet.

[Menselot]

How could I make an animation? I would gladly try on my tablet.

As he said how can i make an animation?
I really like to make images.
Now i want to develop my skills even further so please help me.

[Stratego (dev)]

How could I make an animation? I would gladly try on my tablet.

As he said how can i make an animation?
I really like to make images.
Now i want to develop my skills even further so please help me.

any animation is welcome!

it is simply a series of images that can be looped (like the elf fire archer)

[Menselot]

Ok thanks.

[Stratego (dev)]

since 2015 we have several animation types:
1. idle animation whole unit (idle = a standing unit that does nothing at the moment)
a) fulltime animation (always, in a loop)
b) random special animations (eg. in 30-40sec of standing it start changing the wepon in hands or moves its legs a bit, or does some movement)

2. idle animation only some features of the unit (eg. flies around a zombie, a animating flames on fire archer, waving flag on a unit that has a flag/banner and so on)

3. movement animations (what about directions? same animation to any direction?)

4. attack animations (what about directions? same animation to any direction?)

5. dying animation

6(a). damaging animation: eg. a melee attack damaging
6(b). damaging animation: here we have explosion of projectiles

7. Decor animations (where not the unit animates but there is an overanimation): tank dust on wheels, attack slash animations and so on - we have many already



--------------------
so above green the ready ones (by engine) the others are not yet existing.

questions which one would be the first to make?
i thought of the 1b option (random timed idle animations)

but what u think?

[makazuwr32]

I do not imagine how we will animate points 3, 4 and 5 in aof.

1 b animations will be fine.

[Stratego (dev)]

why you can not imagine? what u mean?
- a "real" attack animation means if unit pulls out the sword and slashes with it.
- a gunman raises barrel shoots and lowers barrel (into idle position)

movement the same: they start moving their legs when moving - directions are a question naturally.

[makazuwr32]

why you can not imagine? what u mean?
- a "real" attack animation means if unit pulls out the sword and slashes with it.
- a gunman raises barrel shoots and lowers barrel (into idle position)

movement the same: they start moving their legs when moving - directions are a question naturally.

1. Movement problems:
Movement animation for some pretty exotic units like ghosts or arahna. It will be such a pain to animate them. Especially on such small images when there are literally no space left for changes.
Another problem here is that in aof we have some units who are facing not left or right but towards player. Directly onto you. For example orc leader or ettin. How will you animate movement of such unit?

2. Attack problems:
Attack animation for up and down directions. I do not see any good ways of making it without making it looking weird. But that is minor problem.
Much bigger problem is to animate units attack or ability usage. In aof we have much wider range of used weapons (and are planning to widen that range even more). And animating attack of for example warmage's burning-lighting blade will be really painful. Animation of attack for already animated units will be such a pain. For example magi bellator — it uses more than 15 frames i believe for its idle animation cycling between various colors.
Another question is how to animate units' attack with more than 1 action. Should they use for first action nimation of attacking with its first weapon and for second action with its second weapon? What animation should it use for third action than (for example gained via ability double strike)?
Last problem is how to animate attack of front-facing units like mentioned above orc leader or ettin. They change indeed how they hold weapons when they change directions but still they do not look directly onto enemy that is on their left or right so how they will attack those (animation wise)?

3. Dying problems:
Here we have the biggest range among all ao-based games of possible units' looks — from humanoid-based orcs, elves and scalefolks to completely inhuman looking skeleton monsters, ents (btw why they are dropping corpses? they do not have bones?!), centaurs, dragons, hydras and many more. And dying animation for them will be really hard to make looking well. For hydra btw we will need than make 4 dying animations with 3 of them will be loosing one of its heads. And we also need in this case to make raising animation as well. Raising from the dead skeletons and phantoms, regenerating back its head hydra and so on.

[Stratego (dev)]

It will be such a pain to animate them

sure animations are pain, i talk about here the "engine capability" to set such animation for this and that unit (especially eg. Legendary skin units)

facing not left or right but towards player

sure all should be figured out how to.

Attack animation for up and down directions. I do not see any good ways of making it without making it looking weird

this problem already menioned in roginal first post: i called it "direction problem"

attack with more than 1 action

this is easy: both separate attacks will animate the unit (so 2 attacks shows the same attack animation twice)

how to animate attack of front-facing units like

this problem already menioned in roginal first post: i called it "direction problem"

Here we have the biggest range among all ao-based games of possible units' looks

yes but again: i do not talk about making ALL unit images and animations at once, i am talking about the ENGINE capability to set such animation if it was drawn already.

ents (btw why they are dropping corpses? they do not have bones?!)

ents dont have bones i think.
or you ment the undead monsters? those do not drop not to make UNDEAD too op (as having unlimited corpses to revive)

And dying animation for them will be really hard to make looking well

why hard? i mean all animation making is hard but why the dying?

raising animation as well

yes raising is a new animation option, i put into list.

[Stratego (dev)]

here i updated with 2 new items


since 2015 we have several animation types:
1. idle animation whole unit (idle = a standing unit that does nothing at the moment)
a) fulltime animation (always, in a loop)
b) random special animations (eg. in 30-40sec of standing it start changing the wepon in hands or moves its legs a bit, or does some movement)

2. idle animation only some features of the unit (eg. flies around a zombie, a animating flames on fire archer, waving flag on a unit that has a flag/banner and so on)

3. movement animations (what about directions? same animation to any direction?)

4. attack animations (what about directions? same animation to any direction?)

5. dying animation

6(a). damaging animation: eg. a melee attack damaging
6(b). damaging animation: here we have explosion of projectiles

7. Decor animations (where not the unit animates but there is an overanimation): tank dust on wheels, attack slash animations and so on - we have many already


7. raising from the dead animation (AOF uses it currently)

8. partially animated parts of unit (eg. tank turrent movement to left and right while shooting maybe) - so the unit image is from 2 image: tank body, and the rotating turret

[makazuwr32]

8 can be changed into "direction changing animation".

Some of those direction problems might be solved with it as well.

What do i mean under "Direction changing animation":
Before each movement or attack/ability use unit will have a phase of changing direction when it will use the animation to change its position for more accurate look for moment before movement or attack.

We might have different "direction changing animations" for attack and for movement. For example for horse archer you do not need to fully change direction of horse to shoot into enemy. You only need to change position of archer's body.
In case of tank we will rotate tank turret during attack and rotate body and turret of tank during movement.