AOS - vote - Starter units change

[Stratego (dev)]

as we do in AOF here in AOS too we ran into trying to change the starter unit packs

current is:
minimal(current default): 1 worker
few: 1 worker + 1 light cav
many: 2 worker + 2 light cav

my goal is to
1. make the first few turns faster (you can build your first buildings faster, you can explore faster)
2. and the 3 (min/few/many) options differing not in amount of units but in their diversity, so maybe all being 4 unit sets but with differing units constitution.

My thought was to always have these "roles" but in different ratio
- building
- exploring/occupying
- some army unit

the minimal/few/many namings can be changed to anything.

Here are some setups you can vote for, you can vote for multiple setups if u like more!

Setup 1: (to always have worker and some explorer in all packs, so all games are faster to buildup and to explore)
General(default): 1x worker, 1x laborer, light cav, spearman
Construction: 3x worker, 1x light cav
Expansion: 1x worker, 1x laborer, 2x light cav

Setup 2: (sometimes you dont have explorer unit, more varied packs)
Construction (default) - 2x worker, 2x laborer
Intel - worker, laborer, scout, spy
Expansion - 2x worker, 2x light cav (current many is useful imho)

Setup 3: (keep current settings but change the default when you create a game, eg. to "many" so only intentionally will be set to 1 worker only)
minimal: 1 worker
few: 1 worker + 1 light cav
many(default): 2 worker + 2 light cav

Setup 4: (mostly Azortuga suggestion)
General(default): 1x worker, 1x laborer, 1x light cav, 1x spearman (Units turn value: 9)
Construction: 2x worker, 1x laborer, 1x guerrila (Units turn value: 10)
Expansion: 1x worker, 1x scout, 2x light cav (Units turn value: 10)

(if you have new setup idea, tell us so i will add more "Setup" options, dont forget we can make 3 unit-sets, we can name them anything though)

[Swadan]

I think, second(2) variation, is more useful in all AOS games.
different goals - different tasks

[makazuwr32]

I would like to add for one of these setups an army setup:
Worker, swordman, archer, pikeman

[Stratego (dev)]

please write a full setup so i can place it on the list.

[AzorTuga]

General(default): 1x worker, 1x laborer, 1x skirmisher, 1x spearman
Construction: 2x worker, 1x laborer, 1x guerrila
Expansion: 1x worker, 1x scout, 2x light cav

An idea . Otherwise, I vote setup 1.

[Stratego (dev)]

no no, there can ONLY be 3 sets not 4 sets.

[AzorTuga]

Ok sorry. It's edited. I think it's more balanced like this and gives an a particular edge to each one but a clear downside to each one as well.

[b2198]

I like AzorTuga's setup a lot, seems pretty interesting (though I'd probably replace the swordsman with a light cavalry in the general one).Otherwise I'd also go with setup 1.

[AzorTuga]

Thanks b2198

I was thinking... having a light cav in default gives too much advantage to it... maybe then instead of a swordsman, putting a skirmisher or a guerrila since they're a bit faster?

[b2198]

I was thinking... having a light cav in default gives too much advantage to it... maybe then instead of a swordsman, putting a skirmisher or a guerrila since they're a bit faster?

Yeah, maybe. Then a skirmisher would probably be better, to have a combination of melee and ranged, instead of 2 melee infantries.

[AzorTuga]

Alright, I edited.

And I put a guerrilla in the "construction" mode because, imagine if you have this starter pack and you spawn next to a player with the expansion starter pack. He will easily overrun you with the horses, kill all the workers and skirmisher. At least a guerrilla gives a bit more defense and speed. Can't think of other basic unit with the same characteristics.

[b2198]

I think all players in a match will start with the same pack though, following the match configs. (like the way we currently can set "minimal", "few" and "many" on creating a match)

[AzorTuga]

Oh right... ok. Well I'll leave the guerrilla, it's better against animals.

[Stratego (dev)]

I was thinking... having a light cav in default gives too much advantage to it... maybe then instead of a swordsman, putting a skirmisher or a guerrila since they're a bit faster?

Yeah, maybe. Then a skirmisher would probably be better, to have a combination of melee and ranged, instead of 2 melee infantries.

i think there is a huge misunderstanding: you dont need to BALANCE the unit-sets, all players will go with SAME pack. so one pack can have30 turn value of units while other sets can be 8 turn calue of units - no problem.

[Stratego (dev)]

oh, all votes reseted, sorry, seems i can not expand the vote list

[AzorTuga]

Yes yes stratego, I missunderstood that. In this case the turn value doesn't matter, can be removed from the setup. Thanks for adding the setup to the list

[godOfKings]

I m not sure if its possible, but specifically for island maps or mostly water maps a setup:

Setup: navy scout
1 worker
1 light cav
1 row boat
1 dromon scout

Setup: navy construction
1 worker
1 laborer
1 light cav
1 dromon scout

Using the first setup u could explore 2 different sides at the same time as well separate explorer teams for close and far exploration

Using setup 2 u can only explore one side in the beginning but with faster construction may b u can build bridge/ row boat to explore other areas

[AzorTuga]

I m not sure if its possible, but specifically for island maps or mostly water maps a setup:

Interesting idea. The only problem I see with this is that the starter town MUST really be besides water. If it fails by one square, the starter ships are useless. I think very few maps guarantee that.

Otherwise, one single NAVY setup could be interesting like: 1x worker, 1x laborer, 1x row boat, 1x dromon.

But with only 3 setups available, I don't see how this would fit in.

[godOfKings]

Well even if there is no water nearby u can still build a canal, u will just b unlucky for a few turns i guess, but there must b some conditions like majority of map is water tiles, or a certain area around starting tc positions is surrounded by water, for these options to b available

Or the map designer himself designates this map as water map with these setups available

[makazuwr32]

Well even if there is no water nearby u can still build a canal, u will just b unlucky for a few turns i guess, but there must b some conditions like majority of map is water tiles, or a certain area around starting tc positions is surrounded by water, for these options to b available

Or the map designer himself designates this map as water map with these setups available

For that we will need some specific code changes if you want to show depending on the map different starting unit sets.

[AzorTuga]

Well even if there is no water nearby u can still build a canal, u will just b unlucky for a few turns i guess,

That's not a bit unlucky... Takes several turns to build a canal and that's a worker that stays busy at the crucial start of the game. Plus, a ship that is stuck for these early turns and can not explore other towns to capture. Not good :\