Age techs

[Endru1241]

Honestly the all techs/no techs with really weirdly selected "all" never really had my support.

In contrast of that we already have TECH_AGE spec in game, which unfoetunately for all purposes is probably useless.

If we assumed it would work like in other Age of games (and I don't mean AoS variants) - researching age should automatically grant techs, that required previous age.

Another related idea to allow OR keyword in trnRequires list - to better make age techs lines.

And if those would be considered - why not allow selection of map starting age then.

[b2198]

Having played AoE for a big part of my childhood, I think limiting techs by age would provide way more means to change the game's balance in a more manageable way, and would change a lot the flow of a match over the turns. For example: if something is too op, but requires age 4 to build/train/research, the early and mid game would most likely not be affected by it unless someone hard rushes the ages, which would leave them way too vulnerable and they would probably be beaten before they could get the op thing done. Or if something is too op, and only requires age 1 to build/train/research, it would probably lose its effectiveness over the course of a match (a bit similar to the current berserker situation in small maps, I would say).

Though I'm not sure if automatically granting techs that required the previous age on researching age would be a good idea, since the game on medium and bigger maps would probably become a "wait-for-max-age-to-start-playing", because players wouldn't need to research anything other than age until the final age.

On the OR keyword, I think it would allow some cool things like "tech armor lv 3, requires archer armor lv2 OR cavalry armor lv2 OR infantry armor lv2".

I also would add a "maximum age" option to games, for when people don't want to use gunpowder, or just want age 1 units in the match, etc.

Overall, I really like these ideas.

[Endru1241]

Easier balancing - that's right.
It is main advantage on my side.

Auto-grant - maybe it is indeed bad idea.
I want something to decrease the need to research multiple upgrade techs - there is just too many of them, so player is left with a lot of outdated unit to be produced.
Going over for units requiring higher age is then much easier.

Maximum age is great idea.

It would allow much previously not used strategies.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Maximum age is a great idea. Several of us have been playing "No Gunpowder" games recently, and it makes a huge difference to gameplay. Anything that avoids gunpowder rush is great.

Most of AoS units already break down naturally into tiers anyway, it only remains to decide how many tiers, and how to split them

[b2198]

Auto-grant - maybe it is indeed bad idea.
I want something to decrease the need to research multiple upgrade techs - there is just too many of them, so player is left with a lot of outdated unit to be produced.
Going over for units requiring higher age is then much easier.

Hm, now come to think about it, maybe auto-grant with a 2 age gap would work?
So for example: player is in age 2, advances to age 3, getting all age 1 technologies automatically
(Is that what you meant and I just misunderstood?)
Because yeah, there are a LOT of upgrade techs, and even with like 10 factories you would still take dozens of turns to research them all, provided that you are not training units, so I think it would be fine to reduce to some extent the amount of those upgrades that you need to actually do when your focus is not on those units. It would still leave a considerable room for researching, because a player (probably) wouldn't want to wait for 2 ages to upgrade his archers, that they are mass producing and using to attack, to crossbowmans, for example.

[Endru1241]

Auto grant with 2 age gap is much better, but I don't think it would be good to set it like that in the engine.
It probably has to be another new option, some list of techs to be researched/granted upon completion (and such option could then be used in other techs, solving some technical problems).
It's also better balance-wise, because some techs can be removed from auto grant if they are too good for that.

[b2198]

Yeah, a list of techs to be auto-granted on specific ages would indeed be better balance-wise, but how would it inform the players which techs it unlocks?

[Endru1241]

By adding to the propsheet additional table with those techs listing, just like any other unit list (Produces, Unlocks, etc.)

[b2198]

Ooh, I forgot about that.