Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Suggestions about the gameplay, the controls, buttons and so on.
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MaharajaInfernape
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Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by MaharajaInfernape »

An UNDO and a REDO Buttons are highly needed because if some wrong thing is done (such as by misclicking), the whole game is affected.

Additionally an Undo All Button can also be given which will undo everything done in that turn. In this button a confirmation should be shown.
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godOfKings
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by godOfKings »

I think undo all is unfair, u can send everything then restart again after finding wat units enemy is hiding...

Just undo can b accepted as long as it only undos the last unit's movement
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
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makazuwr32
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by makazuwr32 »

I an easily see abuse of this:
Scenario:

There is several tcs full of enemy units (you do not know neither amount of units inside nor what units are in).
They all are within reach of your elite stormtroopers.

You attack first tc with various ways (with infantries, with cavalry, with anti cav, with shooters, with anti-giants and so on in different combination) and as result instead of for example using 27 units to free tc (8 have died from counters, 7 injured) as you tried for first assault you have used only 17 units to free it (1 unit died, 2 injured).
And you have than 10 more units to attack second tc within reach.

Another variant is on the map with fog:
You move your scout to reveal part of map, undo move and move it to different way. This way you can explore way more than normally you should.
Ofc it will not be shown on the map but knowledge itself what is there, in the fog, alone is already valuable enough.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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makazuwr32
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by makazuwr32 »

Alas... If these will be buyable spells (undo - 2-3 gems, undo all - 10-14 gems) which are usable only when spells are enabled than this maybe... could be fine.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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godOfKings
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by godOfKings »

Or simply make it u r allowed only 1 undo per turn just to fix an accidental mistake and cant overuse it in 1 turn
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
MaharajaInfernape
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by MaharajaInfernape »

godOfKings wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:10 pm Or simply make it u r allowed only 1 undo per turn just to fix an accidental mistake and cant overuse it in 1 turn
1 undo per turn is too low; at least 5 undos per turn must be given.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by makazuwr32 »

Only for gems in spells enabled games than.
1 undo = 1 spell, 2 gems.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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MaharajaInfernape
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by MaharajaInfernape »

Why are most people against Undo & Redo? In my opinion, they are somewhat like 'fundamental rights' in the game. I also cannot understand why Undo & Redo Buttons don't even exist still now.
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Badnorth
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by Badnorth »

MaharajaInfernape wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:36 am Why are most people against Undo & Redo? In my opinion, they are somewhat like 'fundamental rights' in the game. I also cannot understand why Undo & Redo Buttons don't even exist still now.
It can be used in several ways such as - Seeing Stealth units then redoing after, Seeing Undiscovered Areas then redoing and Redoing many more that is in Multiplayer and other Campaigns E.g. Unexpected turn of Events and Other Things.

I am against in Turn Undo and Redo in Ao Games. I also don't think this is needed and necessary. This Addition might be dangerous. Unless it is a spell of course, it would be viable.
For newcomers, click here for discord links. Hopefully they aren't expired.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by makazuwr32 »

makazuwr32 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:48 pm I an easily see abuse of this:
Scenario:

There is several tcs full of enemy units (you do not know neither amount of units inside nor what units are in).
They all are within reach of your elite stormtroopers.

You attack first tc with various ways (with infantries, with cavalry, with anti cav, with shooters, with anti-giants and so on in different combination) and as result instead of for example using 27 units to free tc (8 have died from counters, 7 injured) as you tried for first assault you have used only 17 units to free it (1 unit died, 2 injured).
And you have than 10 more units to attack second tc within reach.

Another variant is on the map with fog:
You move your scout to reveal part of map, undo move and move it to different way. This way you can explore way more than normally you should.
Ofc it will not be shown on the map but knowledge itself what is there, in the fog, alone is already valuable enough.
This is why. I made several ways how this can be abused.

Legendary turn based strategies also do not have «Undo/Redo». Heroes of might and magic for example do not have it. Ancient empires do not have that.

In my opinion «Undo/Redo» as base feature is for casual players who do not even want to try and learn such thing as "Strategy".
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
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godOfKings
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by godOfKings »

I think at least 1 undo per turn is acceptable as sometimes wen i have too many workers, i accidentally moved 1 worker first for which another's action is wasted, this type of mistakes can b fixed with undo, only 1 unit getting undo in a turn wont b too op, also legendary turn based games arent like ao were we have to monotously construct stuff with every worker each turn
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
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makazuwr32
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by makazuwr32 »

Do not remember now but in 1990-2010 years there was one turn based strategy similar to civilisation or age of empires where you need for maximum output to manually give orders for each unit including workers, lumberjacks, miners and many more. I found it in 2011 year.

During that time it was a bit too annoying game for me (also scale of it is not comparable to aos since you advance there through epochs from stone tools and cave in hill up to the 1950th, early game you manipulate at most with 10-20 units, end game you have under your command sometimes up to 1 million units). And maps themselves also were a bit bigger (about 100-100000 times bigger).

And yet there was no free «Undo» button. Yes there was «Undo» but it costed you tech points and currency (10% of your currency (but not less than 5% of max currency), currency can be gold, lumber, stone, silver and many more, depending on starting position and development of nation — sometimes you can find diamond vein and make them as currency and sometimes you live in rich of prey woods and random rabbits can become currency).
And tech points there were ridicilously valuable since you CAN'T mass produce them — you got 1 tech point per set amount of time (i think per 2 minutes) and +1 more per each epoch you have advanced in.

And to undo movement you need to spend 20 tech points (+20 per each epoch you have advanced) + 10% of currency. Or spend 40 minutes of real time in the game.

But back to AoS.
1 «Undo» still can be quite op on maps with explored or fog visibility since you can move your scout, get info what is there, undo movement and move it somewhere else. If this abuse will not be prevented than i am against it.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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makazuwr32
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by makazuwr32 »

I remember one game where you could undo your move under next conditions:
1. Unit did not attack or use its action by other means — you precisely undo «movement» of last unit;
2. Unit must not expand your vision field so if unit is scouting in fog of war than you can't undo its move;
3. Unit must not capture any structures via movement;
4. Unit must not detect any units via movement (invisible ones for example);
5. If unit moved and affected by its aura other unit made some action or movement, this unit can't undo its movement.

If similar logic can be added here than i can agree for 1 undo/turn.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
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MaharajaInfernape
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by MaharajaInfernape »

makazuwr32 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:54 am 1 «Undo» still can be quite op on maps with explored or fog visibility since you can move your scout, get info what is there, undo movement and move it somewhere else.
I never use Scout. Instead, I quit and restart the game, whose bad side is almost same as Undo. :lol:

But it will be better if Undo is limited to 5 per game and/or 1 per turn.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Need of UNDO & REDO Buttons

Post by makazuwr32 »

I mean not scout unit.
I mean a unit who scouts territory for you in fog of war. It can be any unit, even peasant or that blind guy with sight 1 who stepped into unknown territory of fog.

Any unit who is used to scout territory. Light cavalry, archer, scout, bird, skirmisher...
In aof fairy, wolf, raptor rider, orc scout, monitor lancer, headless horseman, shade...
And even your common basic fighter unit — swordman — if it explores fog territories.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
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