Caravel Predescor IMPLEMENTED

[L4cus]

hulk is the predecesor of both caravels and carracks...
i think it could be added instead of current caravel, and caravel as a new unit with better stats

caravel current stats
cost 5
hp 40
attack 6
range 4
armour 0/2
speed 6
sight 7
carry capacity 1
mend rate 3
construct aff. 30%
mend aff. 100%%
CR 60%

+100% vs non war ships
+250% vs boarding ships

hulk stats:
cost 5
hp 35
attack 6
range 4
armour 0/3
speed 6
sight 6
carry capacity 1
mend rate 2
construct aff. 25%
mend aff. 100%%
CR 40%

+100% vs non war ships
+250% vs boarding ships


new caravel stats:
upgrade cost: 6 turns
cost 5
hp 40
attack 6
range 4
armour 1/4
speed 6
sight 7
carry capacity 1
actions 2
mend rate 4
construct aff. 30%
mend aff. 100%%
CR 60%

+100% vs non war ships
+250% vs boarding ships

[Endru1241]

Just like knarr and cog.
It could even be said, that oared ships like galley or longship were too.

Hulc or Holk (seen both namings and at least they are not to be confused with today meaning of hulk ship) a name often used for slightly larger cogs (with little differences in build). Mainly used by Hanseatic Leage for trading.
It was not an exploration ship.

And that is the main point of caravel - explorer - light cavalry of the sea.

Would need some other name.
Maybe Balinger?

[L4cus]

balinger sounds nice! jsut searched about it.

[Endru1241]

But damn - I would really like to just write here to ask original caravel creator to make another image.

Except - I was the one.

Don't know when I'll get inspiration for that.

Anyone willing is free to experiment with my caravel image.

[L4cus]

yeah, the current sprite doesnt really match the real caravels...looks more like a generic vessel based ship...just like the case of galleys

[Endru1241]

What are you talking about?

[L4cus]

the rear is not visible because of the vessels...duh

[Endru1241]

I'll write it here too.
It could also to be named κᾱ́ρᾰβος or latinized Carabus.
That was where the name was gotten from.
Which as far as I can guess - might have been a type of dromon.
It's hard to really find anything about it and I don't even know if it was byzantine name or just translated عَقْرَب‎ (ʿaqrab) or قَارِب‎ (qārib).

Or maybe functional precestors would be more proper - barinel or barcha longa.

[Endru1241]

Let's see if the difference is enough.

[DreJaDe]

I kinda want to try but how does it exactly look?

Almost every search I do. It has a different look

[L4cus]

well...thats the problem...

[Endru1241]

The only things, that are certain:
- it had at least one lateen sail (triangal)
- was pretty small compared to merchant ships
- was used by pirates
- was used by portugese in some coastal exploration on the beginning

[DreJaDe]

Saw 2 pictures depicting the same ship as hulk so I tried to do that as the design. Though the image didn't actually show how the sail look so I left it to my imagination.

[Endru1241]

Saw 2 pictures depicting the same ship as hulk so I tried to do that as the design. Though the image didn't actually show how the sail look so I left it to my imagination.

Good image.

But what I was refering to was "Barcha Longa" - probably closest functional predescor of caravel.

[Endru1241]

Saw 2 pictures depicting the same ship as hulk so I tried to do that as the design. Though the image didn't actually show how the sail look so I left it to my imagination.

Can I use image to make new, pricier ship?

My plan is to change caravel cost to 4, so this new one could be 6.
Caravela de Armada - so maybe just "War Caravel"?
It could require "To Caravel" upgrade tech and be slightly stronger in hp, 6 speed ship with weaker cannon shot ability.

The image looks just like it:

[L4cus]

so we will have two types of caravel?
one with the scouting role, and the other one as an attack gunned ship?
gosh
loving this! actually the cannons could be swivel guns...idk...just as an idea...

[DreJaDe]

Saw 2 pictures depicting the same ship as hulk so I tried to do that as the design. Though the image didn't actually show how the sail look so I left it to my imagination.

Can I use image to make new, pricier ship?

My plan is to change caravel cost to 4, so this new one could be 6.
Caravela de Armada - so maybe just "War Caravel"?
It could require "To Caravel" upgrade tech and be slightly stronger in hp, 6 speed ship with weaker cannon shot ability.

The image looks just like it:

Of course.

[Endru1241]

so we will have two types of caravel?
one with the scouting role, and the other one as an attack gunned ship?
gosh
loving this! actually the cannons could be swivel guns...idk...just as an idea...

Swivel gun is still a cannon, so you mean what?

[L4cus]

yes! but as a different ability with different bonuses i mean

[SirPat]

The swivel gun could be used as a anti personnel weapon reducing enemy ships mental resistance and (if possible) the enemy ships conversion chance. By a small amount ofc like maybe -6% to both oh and these are only 1 range with 2 turn cd, and effect lasts for 5turns. Ik there are other anti personnel weapons ships used but i couldnt remember them.

[L4cus]

Oof interesting! but i would actually give swivel gun a limited range like 3-4 range with low damage(small bonus against ships) and the ability would not consume action...just thinking dx

[Endru1241]

The swivel gun could be used as a anti personnel weapon reducing enemy ships mental resistance and (if possible) the enemy ships conversion chance. By a small amount ofc like maybe -6% to both oh and these are only 1 range with 2 turn cd, and effect lasts for 5turns. Ik there are other anti personnel weapons ships used but i couldnt remember them.

Decreasing conversion chance could be interesting weapon against boarding ships.
But it could be added effect to some gun damage.

[L4cus]

to be fair and accuarate, i think al gunpowder ships should be rebalanced...what does this mean? that we dont need to makeswivel gun an ability...it could be the standard arma of gunpowder ships beside cannon ship...it would require some changes to carrack, galleon and, the unit itself, caravel and variants...including pirate ship

so theeffect sirpat describes could be just the weapon effect. the stats could go like this

scout caravel => light caravel
cost 4
hp 35 => 40
attack 5 => 6
range 5 => 5
armour 0/3 => 0/4
speed 6
sight 7 => 8
carry capacity 1
mend rate 2 => 3
+50% vs non war ship
+75% vs melee ship, transport ship
+100% vs cargo ship, boarding ship

War caravel
cost 6
hp 50
attack 8
range 6
armour 2/5
speed 6
sight 6
carry capacity ¿1?
mend rate 6
+50% vs non war ship
+75% vs melee ship, transport ship
+100% vs cargo ship, boarding ship
arma effect: swivel guns:
-6% conversion resistance
-8% conversion chance
2 turns duration

[SirPat]

I wanted this weapon to be both used for defence against boarding and used to increase boarding effectiveness and for me itll be better as a upgrade in the blacksmith giving allmost all ships this effect. By allmost I meant all except ancient ships like triremes. Galleys could take this tho since they were used until the end of the 18th century. But at the same time wouldnt all war ships except transports should have boarding ship ability? Maybe when u research boarding effective ness it gives the rest of the ships boarding ability but isnt as strong compared to galleons and boarding ships.

[L4cus]

i dont like the idea of making all ships with boarding ability...following that logic, structures should be capturable, including factories, mega factories, defenses, etc

[SirPat]

Structures are, covertable but you would need like 6+ healers and like 5turns to convert a structure with 500% resistance

[Endru1241]

I think L4cus meant, that it would be like giving all infantry possibility to capture buildings.
Or that all buildings should be like tc.

And I also am unconvinced at ability for all (excluding only trireme line is not really good - if you'd look at byzantine fleet, I am pretty sure it was employing similar ships up to the very end).
Just as well, as having lower resist effect.

Because all in all - why would only guns cause it?
Let's make it for all naval attacks.
But then again - should it even be exclusive to naval ones?

Crew would die just the same from archers or towers attacks.

[SirPat]

Yeah it just ends with a loop that everything and anything would decrease would have the same effect. So lets just put that effect on a few units as an anti boarding weapon

[Endru1241]

Barcha Longa as Caravel predescor and War Caravel are both in dev.