Oda Yari Ashigaru

[DreJaDe]

Either long Yari ashigaru or Oda Yari ashigaru
Oda Nobunaga used a longer version of Yari that may even have the same length as the Macedonian sarissa.

Stats
Cost: 3
Hp: 11
Dmg: 8
Range: 2
Armor/r armor/ 0
Bonus
100% Mounted
200% Heavy mounted
150% heavy slow mounted

Special: first strike
Well, they are have longer weapon so I think they should atleast be able to attack before they could be attacked

[Morningwarrior]

Does a lot of dmg,he dont have bonus gains elephants and you are another with ability to make great pixel art

[DreJaDe]

Does a lot of dmg,he dont have bonus gains elephants and you are another with ability to make great pixel art

If that's a compliment then I'll take it.

It does have a high damage but it has lower health and lower bonus against cavalry

[Morningwarrior]

Normaly pikemans have not much dmg,but i seen causes regular dmg

[Morningwarrior]

Hp:12
Atk:4
Rng:2
Armor:0/0
Spd:3
Cost:2
Sight:5
Polearm wearer,light foot,anti-cavalry
Bonus
+140% vs mounted
+200% vs heavy mounted(slow)
+240% vs medium cavalry
+325% vs heavy cavalry
+450% vs elephant

[L4cus]

I think there is already a topic about this...
yari waswas not really long. so 2 range for doesnt fit...
and well i suposse it cost 2 turns right? 2 range anti cav unit withwith that cost is op at least in my opinion

[Endru1241]

Merged - DreJaDe proposition is about 2 range yari ashigaru after all.

[L4cus]

well, stats look worse tan regular pikeman...maybe 1 regular armorand more hp, they are gonna be affected by bushido so i think thats ok

[Endru1241]

Except regular pikeman have 50% higher cost.
That really changes much.

[L4cus]

my bad, i was talking about drejade stast ...3 turns cost, its the same as regular pikeman
btw pikeman gets upgraded and affected by blacksmith upgrades too
just bushido aura is not enought to balance it that way
so i think it could be:
3 turns
hp 20
attack 5
range 2
armor 1/0
speed 3
and the same bonuses as drejade suggestion

big difference with regular pikeman is the high hp, but i think this could be like the foot knight-legionary case where legionary hassimilar stats as foot knights (more hp but not affected by blacksmith upgrades+has not a propper upgrade)

[Endru1241]

But japanese units normally get all blacksmith benefits.
And hp difference between is really huge - enough to warranty some crippling category (e.g. medium infantry).

[L4cus]

ohhh, my bad, so 15 hp instead of 20 xd

[godOfKings]

Does it have to b 2 range? I was thinking a rather 2 turn 1 range yari ashigaru with 5 atk with same anti mounted bonus as lancer (which is slightly lower than spearman) but with bushido aura it can reach max damage potential much faster than other conventional spearmen, pikemen and lancers (not necessarily since their techs need about 6 turns to reach 3rd tier while daimyo needs 7 turn)

So keeping stats similar to tanegashima ashigaru-

Cost: 2
Hp: 13
Atk: 5
Armor: 1/1
Speed: 3
Sight: 5
Spell resist: 0%

Lancer bonus against mounted only

Historically yari ashigaru were the cheapest and lowest rank peasant turned militias in japan and were mostly cannon fodders and only oda began to properly utilise them and tanegashima ashigarus, so there is no point in a separate oda unit and also i dont want them to cost same as samurai

[DreJaDe]

Does it have to b 2 range? I was thinking a rather 2 turn 1 range yari ashigaru with 5 atk with same anti mounted bonus as lancer (which is slightly lower than spearman) but with bushido aura it can reach max damage potential much faster than other conventional spearmen, pikemen and lancers (not necessarily since their techs need about 6 turns to reach 3rd tier while daimyo needs 7 turn)

So keeping stats similar to tanegashima ashigaru-

Cost: 2
Hp: 13
Atk: 5
Armor: 1/1
Speed: 3
Sight: 5
Spell resist: 0%

Lancer bonus against mounted only

Historically yari ashigaru were the cheapest and lowest rank peasant turned militias in japan and were mostly cannon fodders and only oda began to properly utilise them and tanegashima ashigarus, so there is no point in a separate oda unit and also i dont want them to cost same as samurai

When I made this suggestion, I was actually thinking of the famous troops of ODA which has a longer pike than his enemies.

I also thought of another pike unit with different stats to the 2 already existing ones

[L4cus]

maybe long yari ahigau could be a 3 turns unit and normal yari a 2 turns unit...

[godOfKings]

I watched a film on nobunaga's conquest and wat i learned is that the other clans looked down on ashigarus cuz they r peasant class and as such they also had hatred towards the samurai class because of this discrimination, nobunaga basically utilised this hatred and roused the morale of his ashigaru with it, making them more effective in battle, which earned them their fame

And i actually havent seen any historical reference of japanese using pike formation so i cant comment whether they should have range 2, in my opinion an early 2 turn tier 2 spearman is more than enough for japan faction

[L4cus]

WELL, IT COULD BE ONLY PRODUCED IN DOJO...BUT NORMAL YARI AT DOJO, TC AND BARRACKS

[Endru1241]

I agree with GoK on this.

Even if we tried to add specific ashigaru using nagae yari, that was extensively utilised by Oda Nobunaga there is one little problem.
Well - they were introduced by Oda Nabunaga, so around the end of game period (or later - depending on view on that).
So Oda's specific ashigaru could be unlocked by some social tech - ashigaru importance or something.

[DreJaDe]

I agree with GoK on this.

Even if we tried to add specific ashigaru using nagae yari, that was extensively utilised by Oda Nobunaga there is one little problem.
Well - they were introduced by Oda Nabunaga, so around the end of game period (or later - depending on view on that).
So Oda's specific ashigaru could be unlocked by some social tech - ashigaru importance or something.

I actually remembered that someone suggested already to implement the Yari ashigeru in game but was ignored.

So I thought it was denied and so I made this suggestion.

What I meant is that, that should have been a 2 turn version of spearman for Japan and I thought it was rejected so I made a new suggestion which I thought was more unique.

[L4cus]

There are tood posibilities for ashigaru units...
But maybe too much 2 turns units for dojo production would not be safe...balancing sake i mean
'Cause there is bow, arquebus, yari, sword, tate (shielded)
And long yari too. I dont think endru agree with adding to many variants...

[godOfKings]

The main reason yari wasnt implemented b4 was bcuz category was messed up, like knight would deal bonus dmg to yari ashigaru, and to counter that yari was given too high armor, spearman (or pikeman as it was called in the old days) didnt have a category so it was the only pole arm unit that didnt get bonus damage from mounted units


But thanks to endru's painstaking efforts, all the categories r properly organised so yari ashigaru can now b completely changed and balanced without any restriction from messed up categories

[Morningwarrior]

Oh so not looks trouble now,but eventually ashigaru is a low class troops in medieval japan,more ashigaru class will arrive,like nodachi,tate,teepo,archer etc.

[DreJaDe]

I have thought of a better thing for this unit if this won't get to the game as buyable.

It can be just an editor unit then.

In the future, a guy with interest on making the Japanese sengoku jidai campaign may find use to this units.

[Morningwarrior]

no no, if so, tanegashima ashigaru tbm would be a map editor unit, which is being debated for this unit to be recruitable.

[DreJaDe]

Since this topic is dead and almost no one wants a Japanese spearman.

Ill just do a redesign of the current map editor version of the Yari Ashigaru.

If possible, can this be put in game?

They could be like 2 turn Infantry oriented spearman which the Japanese used more as anti infantry rather than anti cav.

[Endru1241]

Actually GoK already made json for yari ashigaru and it will be included in next update or one after that, along with few other far east units.

[Endru1241]

Since this topic is dead and almost no one wants a Japanese spearman.

Ill just do a redesign of the current map editor version of the Yari Ashigaru.

If possible, can this be put in game?

They could be like 2 turn Infantry oriented spearman which the Japanese used more as anti infantry rather than anti cav.

And finally I used this skin for cheap 2 turn unit.
But at least something is implemented.

[DreJaDe]

Awesome. I would have want at least a unique unit but Japan being quite cheap (as game mechanic) for it's units is a good quality on it's own.

[godOfKings]

Its cheap but with the help of bushido aura, onmyoji buff and demoralise debuff from oni mask it can b scary as well

[DreJaDe]

Its cheap but with the help of bushido aura, onmyoji buff and demoralise debuff from oni mask it can b scary as well

Yup. I learned this quite well from buff meta players.