A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

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Hyuhjhih
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A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

1. Japaneese sodegarami weilder

The sodegarami (袖搦, sleeve entangler) is a pole weapon that was used by the samurai class and their retainers in feudal Japan.
The sodegarami is a type of man catcher. It is around 2 metres (7 ft) in length, with multiple barbed heads facing forwards and backwards. The pole is sturdy hardwood with sharp metal barbs or spines attached to metal strips on one end to keep the person being captured from grabbing the pole. The opposite end of the pole has a metal cap or ishizuki, like those found on naginata and other pole weapons. The sodegarami, tsukubō (push pole), and sasumata (spear fork) comprise the torimono sandōgu (three implements of arresting) used by samurai police to capture suspected criminals uninjured. The sodegarami was used to entangle the sleeves and clothing of an individual who could then be more easily disarmed or dealt with.

The sodegarami evolved from the yagaramogara, which was a long pole implement employed by naval forces. That instrument in turn was derived from the Chinese lang xian, which was used to defend against Japanese pirates during the Ming dynasty (1368-1644). Alternative names for the sodegarami include roga-bō, shishigashira, neji, and tōrigarami.
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My Idea
A cheap anti blood and flesh unit
Cost 2
Hp 10
Att 5
Rng 1
Speed 3
Conversion 30%
Armour 0/0
Trained at dojo
BONUSES
200% flesh and blood.》100% Edited on 28/9
100% stealth Units
Last edited by Hyuhjhih on Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units

Post by Hyuhjhih »

2.Tsukubo Wielder

The tsukubō (突棒) (push pole) was a pole weapon used by the samurai class and their retainers in feudal Japan.
In Edo period Japan the samurai were in charge of police operations, various levels of samurai police with help from non-samurai commoners used many types of non lethal weapons in order to capture suspected criminals for trial. Historically the tsukubō was used as a type of man catcher, usually around 2 meters in length, with a T-shaped head.

The head of the tsukubō would have various metal spikes and barbs. The pole was hardwood with sharp metal barbs or spines attached to metal strips on one end to keep the person being captured from grabbing the pole. The opposite end of the pole would have a metal cap, or ishizuki like those found on naginata and other pole weapons. The tsukubō was one component of the torimono sandōgu (three implements of arresting), along with the sodegarami (sleeve entangler) and the sasumata (spear fork) used by samurai police to capture suspected criminals uninjured. The tsukubō could be used to push, pull, or trip a suspect.

The tsukubō may have been developed from a type of Japanese rake used by farmers according to Don Cunningham. Originally made of wood, the teeth were eventually covered with or made of metal so that they would last longer. It is likely that they were used by farmers as impromptu weapons when necessary. Don Cunningham also states that the tsukubō was also called teppa, hakan, gettetsuken, saburi, and hoko.
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My Idea
A cheap japaneese peasant with low health and low damage
Cost 1
Hp 4
Att 4
Rng 1
Speed 3
Armour 0/0
BONUSES
150% MOUNTED
350% ELEPHANTS
Requires town patrol
Trained at dojo
Last edited by Hyuhjhih on Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units

Post by Hyuhjhih »

3. Sasumata Wielder

The sasumata (刺股, spear fork) is a pole weapon used by the samurai class and their retainers in feudal Japan.

Although some sources place the origin of the sasumata in the Muromachi period, most sources discuss its use in the Edo period. In Edo period Japan the samurai were in charge of police operations. Various levels of samurai police with help from non-samurai commoners used many types of non-lethal weapons to capture suspected criminals for trial.

The sasumata (spear fork) together with the tsukubō (push pole) and the sodegarami (sleeve entangler) comprised the torimono sandōgu (three tools/implements of arresting) used by samurai police and security forces.Samurai police in the Edo period used the sasumata along with the sodegarami and tsukubō to restrain and arrest suspected criminals uninjured. The head of the sasumata would be used to catch around the neck, arms, legs, or joints of a suspect and detain him until officers could close in and apprehend him (using hojōjutsu). The sasumata had a long hardwood pole usually around two meters in length with sharp barbs or spines attached to metal strips on one end of the pole to keep the person being captured from grabbing the pole. The opposite end of the sasumata pole would often have a metal cap, or ishizuki like those found on naginata and other pole weapons.

-Firefighting
There were also firefighting versions of the instrument known as a chokyakusan, rinkaku, tetsubashira, or tokikama. A similar weapon in China was known as a chang jiao qian, and sometimes called a cha gan or huo cha (fire fork), which had a similar firefighting role. The sasumata type implements were used by firefighters to help dismantle burning buildings, raise ladders, and otherwise assist with their duties.

-Modern us
Today, a modern version of the sasumata is still occasionally used by the police and as a self-defense tool. These modern sasumata are often made of aluminum, without the sharpened blades and spikes found on their medieval counterparts. They have been marketed to schools due to a growing fear of classroom invasions, which has prompted many schools in Japan to keep sasumata available for teachers to protect themselves or students and to detain a potential threat until the authorities can arrive.
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Cost 3
Hp 15
Att 4 act 2
Rng 1
Speed 3,4
Armour 0/2
Ability
Extinguish fire (no mending)
Put out fire from burnables cd _ last _ chance 100%
Consumes 2 actions in total.
Trained at dojo.
Last edited by Hyuhjhih on Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units

Post by Hyuhjhih »

4. Metsubushi Samurai

Metsubushi (Japanese: 目潰し, lit. "eye closers") or gantsubushi are a variety of implements and techniques that were used in feudal Japan by samurai police and other individuals to temporarily or permanently blind or disorient an opponent.

One type of metsubushi was used by samurai police for blowing powdered pepper or dust into the eyes of a suspect. It is described as being a lacquer or brass box with a wide mouthpiece for blowing on, and a hole or pipe on the other end for directing the powder into the eyes of the person being captured.One type of metsubushi powder was made up of ashes, ground-up pepper, mud, flour, and dirt. For severe damage, it could also include fine-ground glass. It was kept in hollowed-out eggs (happō), bamboo tubes or other small containers. When confronted by an attacker, a person would blow the metsubushi in the attacker's eyes, blinding him.
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My Idea
Cost 3
Attack 3
Active effect Blind
  • Action 》0
  • no counter attack
  • Last 1
  • Affect flesh and blood units.
  • Cured by healing
Hp 10
Act 1
Rng 3
Speed 2
Armour 0/0
Produced at dojo, TC(not sure if needed.) @Endru1241
Require To hatamoto or a new tech called Metsubushi
Last edited by Hyuhjhih on Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:28 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units

Post by Hyuhjhih »

5.Kunai Warriors

A kunai (苦無, kunai) is a Japanese tool thought to be originally derived from the masonry trowel. The two widely recognized variations of the kunai are short kunai (小苦無 shō-kunai) and the big kunai (大苦無 dai-kunai). Although a basic tool, in the hands of a martial arts expert, the kunai could be used as a multi-functional weapon. The kunai is commonly associated with the ninja, who used it to gouge holes in walls. Many popular manga characters use kunai as both their primary and secondary weapons.
The kunai was conventionally wrought in lengths ranging from 20 cm to 30 cm. It was used by peasants as a multi-purpose gardening tool and by workers of stone and masonry. The blade is made of soft iron, and is left unsharpened because the edges are used to smash relatively soft materials such as plaster and wood, for digging holes and for prying. Normally, only the tip is sharpened.

A Kunai normally had a leaf-shaped blade and a handle with a ring on the pommel for attaching a rope. The attached rope allowed the kunai's handle to be wrapped to function as a grip, or to be strapped to a stick as a makeshift spear; to be tied to the body for concealment; to be used as an anchor or piton, and sometimes to be used as the Chinese rope dart. Contrary to popular belief, kunai were not designed to be used primarily as throwing weapons. Instead, kunai were primarily tools and, when used as weapons, were stabbing and thrusting implements.

Varieties of kunai include short, long, narrow-bladed, saw-toothed, and wide-bladed. In some cases, the kunai and the shikoro, a wide-bladed saw with a dagger-type handle, are difficult to distinguish.
Many ninja weapons were adapted from farming tools, not unlike those used by Shaolin monks in China. Since kunai were cheaply produced farming tools of a useful size and weight and could be easily sharpened, they were readily available to be converted into simple weapons.[citation needed] As a weapon, the kunai is larger and heavier than a shuriken and with the grip could also be used in hand-to-hand combat more readily than a shuriken.[citation needed]

-Climbing
In addition, it could be used for climbing, either as a kind of grappling hook or as a piton.
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Cost 2
Hp 14 melee , 9 ranged, 11 pole
Att 7 melee , att 5 ranged , att 4 pole
Rng 1 melee, rng 5 ranged , rng 1 pole
Armour 0/0
Spd 3 melee, 3 ranged, 4 pole
Can occupy mountain terrain tiles.
Resistance 30%
Mend rate 4 ,consume action.
Active effect jumping over
  • Can jump over enemy units or structures.
  • Effect on self

Trained at dojo.
Requires town patrol
Last edited by Hyuhjhih on Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Badnorth »

Mm, might be a good idea.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

QuadrupoleStrat wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:05 am Mm, might be a good idea.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Badnorth »

This is many. I'll try later.I'll start with kunai first.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by DreJaDe »

Kunai warrior? What's that they are a tool rather than a weapon right?
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

DreJaDe wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:24 am Kunai warrior? What's that they are a tool rather than a weapon right?
Ninjas were normally farmers know? They also carried basic tools first
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by DreJaDe »

Hyuhjhih wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:34 am
DreJaDe wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:24 am Kunai warrior? What's that they are a tool rather than a weapon right?
Ninjas were normally farmers know? They also carried basic tools first
Yep, then they should be a peasant like unit with peasant like stats if they only have a kunai as a weapon. U can't use kunai in war u know.

If theyre shinobi then they should atleast be a three turn unit with stealth not 2. I think 2 turn is for nomal soldiers.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

DreJaDe wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:25 am
Hyuhjhih wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:34 am
DreJaDe wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:24 am Kunai warrior? What's that they are a tool rather than a weapon right?
Ninjas were normally farmers know? They also carried basic tools first
Yep, then they should be a peasant like unit with peasant like stats if they only have a kunai as a weapon. U can't use kunai in war u know.

If theyre shinobi then they should atleast be a three turn unit with stealth not 2. I think 2 turn is for nomal soldiers.
If so the cost should be 1. And a cost 1 unit with jumping over in dojo wont be a good idea. So a cost 2 bunch of random unit with nearly normal stats would do good. Kunai has been used in peasant riots of japan. Peasants are not for war either, they engage in war as their own role in defense or in their nation's hard times.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

And currently the Kunai Warriors are already having a bit low stats than normal army except pole, since they were actually good at using them.
And they also need town patrol researched.
Comparison
Sword heavy, long .Kunai light short handy. Much faster stabbing than swords and efficient sharp tip to pierce.

Arrows light less momentum ,better accuracy , lesser piercing. Kunai much heavy, better piercing, easily throwable , less accurate.

Poles sharp enough to pierce through flesh, less rigid. Kunai is so sharp ended and much rigid to drill through rocks but with blunt edges and tied to a long stick.

I cant find much lower priority to this weapons than normal weapons.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Endru1241 »

Like I mentioned before - don't concentrate on single weapons being representation of unit.
What I really see here is one unit - japanese police of edo period.
I have no idea if any organized units with similar weapons/tactics/structure existed back under muromachi bakufu.
That's what I got from the descriptions.

Stats show a bunch of better than existing units.
1. Unit with low hp, but 15 attack against everything apart of buidlings, siege and ships.
2. Totally superior to any peasant, but one.
4. Very good debuffer - effectively can paralyse any unit and make ut easily removable.
5. If it's meant as transformations, then absolutely OP in versality.

About 3. I don't have clear understanding, but I assume it's about e.g. removing burning weapon ability from fire archer. It's impossible in current engine.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

2. Can have reduced bonuses then
1. A cheap variety of back stab but visible and vulnerable
3. Like dis enchanting as in AoF, can remove temporary flame effect from victim units
4.ideal for keeping light armour units when paired with heavy hitters , cost can be changed if required
5. Not transforming but spawning random units as auxiliaries and peasants, ran cycling through these three units.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

1&2 mainly used by recruited samurai police
3.a self defence legal weapon among both forces and citizens
4. A blinding powder used by samurai police, a similar fashion can be observed in the ninja system as smoke bomb and blinding eggs.
5. Its the engagement of several peasants and workers in desperate situations of their area under unwanted imperial periods by their common but efficient for a kill tools.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Endru1241 »

1, 2. So they are not really a military units - before Edo period organized police didn't really exist - it was just sporadic function of real samurai.
For 1. I don't really see a reason for such stats, for 2. I don't see enough reason to use as separate unit when 5. already brings random, that it can be part of.
3. So basically a specialized firefighter somehow made related to a weapon.
4. And it would fit some kind of shinobi much better.
5. Better fitting would some other kind of generic name then - maybe ashigaru? Relating everything to kunai is just silly. The same explanation could be used for many e.g. european tools, but nobody tries to make it a theme for units.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Morningwarrior »

Dont forget the ashigaru units...
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

1.anti flesh and blood bonus can be reduced to 100%
I didn't really thought of reducing it since the barbed weapon can be very devastating. If another choice , it can be cost 3 .
2.
Endru1241 wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 pm for 2. I don't see enough reason to use as separate unit when 5. already brings random, that it can be part of.
whats point in that opinion endru, it is cheap,low hitting, and vulnerable as the peasant with fork. They cant even scratch a cavalry or elephant, all they can do is light spamming to keep enemy distracted or do the last hit on some units.
3. No they aren't basic firefighters, their stats are to be 2 act light hitter with moderate health, and the ability to put out fire consuming 2 action and +1 spd.
4. No shinobies were lower grade ninjas with dishonest war behaviors. Mestubushi samurais were basically samurai police from the edo period . and the stats cant be compromised in any way if it is gonna be implemented. All it can do is blinding an enemy unit for a turn with basic attack and making them lack counter attacking.
5. Let me think
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

QuadrupoleStrat wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:12 am This is many. I'll try later.I'll start with kunai first.
Image ref of kunai spear
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Image
Image kunai ranged ref.(from mortal kombat)

Image
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Kunai melee ref (dai kunai- long kunai)
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Morningwarrior »

And the tonfa weapon.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

The topic seems dead. Lets use a revive spell.
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Re: A Bunch Of New Japanese Units - UNDER BALANCING.

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Need audience📢
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