strategos-hellenic general IMPLEMENTED as Taxiarchos

Post Reply
User avatar
L4cus
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:51 pm
Location: Perú

strategos-hellenic general IMPLEMENTED as Taxiarchos

Post by L4cus »

hellenic army leader:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategos
models for the unit:
Image
and alexander the great too as fun:
Image
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus...
AOD, a new variant...
viewforum.php?f=230
User avatar
L4cus
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:51 pm
Location: Perú

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by L4cus »

maybe this units could have the next new ability:
"accompanied"
range 2
attack +2
armour +1/+0
CR +50%
affected: companion cavary and (if added) foot companion
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus...
AOD, a new variant...
viewforum.php?f=230
User avatar
b2198
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:48 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by b2198 »

Seeing how underused companion cavalry are, and having done some tests on their potential for a coordinated attack in the late game, I fully support them getting some new units that could add different stat increases for them.
Green is the correct color, other colors are "less correct".
User avatar
L4cus
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:51 pm
Location: Perú

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by L4cus »

well considering that they would have high morale, that amount of attack buff could be nerfed, so instead of +2 attack and +1/+0 armour they could have +1 attack and +1/+0 armour + high morale, that way attack buff is not stocked
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus...
AOD, a new variant...
viewforum.php?f=230
User avatar
L4cus
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:51 pm
Location: Perú

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by L4cus »

maybe some stats could be:

cost 6
hp 36
attack 14
range 1
armour 2/1
speed 5
same bonuses as centurion

ailities:
promote loyalty
dismiss propaganda
high morale aura
accompanied aura
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus...
AOD, a new variant...
viewforum.php?f=230
User avatar
DreJaDe
Posts: 2382
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 10:19 pm

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by DreJaDe »

b2198 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:53 pm Seeing how underused companion cavalry are, and having done some tests on their potential for a coordinated attack in the late game, I fully support them getting some new units that could add different stat increases for them.
Which is why I wanted them to only cost 4 turns. But I and others also know that that is impossible.
User avatar
Endru1241
Posts: 2717
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:43 am
Location: Poland

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by Endru1241 »

DreJaDe wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:32 am
b2198 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:53 pm Seeing how underused companion cavalry are, and having done some tests on their potential for a coordinated attack in the late game, I fully support them getting some new units that could add different stat increases for them.
Which is why I wanted them to only cost 4 turns. But I and others also know that that is impossible.
4 turn cost would make them beasts in early game.
Back then one-shotting spearmen and with another companion also swordsmen.
Right now they are superior if only limited investment in cavalry was decided by player.
E.g. spending 20 turns of production we have 4 companions, which can boost each other, while only 2 cavaliers
Spending 40 turns we have 8 companions vs 7 cavaliers, which is clearly worse.
Not sure what is exact turn count to make them around equal, but you should see the idea behind.

As for aura bonus, that could designate companions as elite guards - why not go with strictly defensive boost?
+2/1 armors and some mental resistance?
Age of Strategy design leader
User avatar
L4cus
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:51 pm
Location: Perú

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by L4cus »

isnt there a way to make a max stack of the effect like a maximum of +3...so companions are not broken
btw i was sugestion removing the aura of companions and make the hellenic leader to boost them with a particular area that wouldnt affect other hellenic units...so just like roman units depend of centurion to get their highest power, companions would need their leader to get their highest strenght...just as a sugestion also companions make company for leader but in game they get boosted even without a leader what seems funny...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus...
AOD, a new variant...
viewforum.php?f=230
User avatar
L4cus
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:51 pm
Location: Perú

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by L4cus »

and well, i was about to suggest agema companion as an upgrade but now i see that they are almost broken so lets not...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus...
AOD, a new variant...
viewforum.php?f=230
User avatar
Endru1241
Posts: 2717
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:43 am
Location: Poland

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by Endru1241 »

L4cus wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:10 pm isnt there a way to make a max stack of the effect like a maximum of +3...so companions are not broken
btw i was sugestion removing the aura of companions and make the hellenic leader to boost them with a particular area that wouldnt affect other hellenic units...so just like roman units depend of centurion to get their highest power, companions would need their leader to get their highest strenght...just as a sugestion also companions make company for leader but in game they get boosted even without a leader what seems funny...
There no way to have max.
Either non-stacking at all or limited by tiles.

And about no leader - who said there are no leaders among companion unit?
Besides - in game description suggest the boost is coming from great coordination with other similar units, not from having the king around.
Age of Strategy design leader
User avatar
L4cus
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:51 pm
Location: Perú

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by L4cus »

got a point there!...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus...
AOD, a new variant...
viewforum.php?f=230
User avatar
b2198
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:48 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by b2198 »

Endru1241 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:58 pm 4 turn cost would make them beasts in early game.
Back then one-shotting spearmen and with another companion also swordsmen.
Right now they are superior if only limited investment in cavalry was decided by player.
E.g. spending 20 turns of production we have 4 companions, which can boost each other, while only 2 cavaliers
Spending 40 turns we have 8 companions vs 7 cavaliers, which is clearly worse.
Not sure what is exact turn count to make them around equal, but you should see the idea behind.

As for aura bonus, that could designate companions as elite guards - why not go with strictly defensive boost?
+2/1 armors and some mental resistance?
Maybe let their cavalry give +1 damage and +mental resistance, their foot (if added) give +1/+1 armor and +mental resistance, and their leader give both (so +1 damage, +1/+1 armor and a bigger +mental resistance)?
Green is the correct color, other colors are "less correct".
User avatar
DreJaDe
Posts: 2382
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 10:19 pm

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by DreJaDe »

I don't get the numbers much though I do get balance behind it (somewhat)

Companion can't be built in tc, unlike knights. This makes it impossible to have 4 companions in 20 turns. Let's say that stables are already available and maybe around 2 TC per player, then I would still be able to create more knights than companions isn't it (even plus the upgrades).
User avatar
L4cus
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:51 pm
Location: Perú

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by L4cus »

true...but balance of companions deserve its own topic
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus...
AOD, a new variant...
viewforum.php?f=230
User avatar
Endru1241
Posts: 2717
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:43 am
Location: Poland

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by Endru1241 »

DreJaDe wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:04 am I don't get the numbers much though I do get balance behind it (somewhat)

Companion can't be built in tc, unlike knights. This makes it impossible to have 4 companions in 20 turns. Let's say that stables are already available and maybe around 2 TC per player, then I would still be able to create more knights than companions isn't it (even plus the upgrades).
I didn't count initial conditions, because in quick summary I remebered they were the same (existing stables).
But yeah - you'd probably train knight in the tc during the time stables are busy with upgrade, while it's not possible for companions.
Balance is shifted from my example, so real turn number of equal balance is somewhere lower than 20 turns.
Age of Strategy design leader
User avatar
Endru1241
Posts: 2717
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:43 am
Location: Poland

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by Endru1241 »

Decided, that strategos would be too high up, so went with taxiarchos (commander of batalion).
It's heavy melee and has high morale + unique aura giving 2 boosts:
- general boost of +1 power, +1/1 armors to hellenic fighters
- give 1 range aura to all hellenic big shield bearers, which effect is cumulative and gives +1/0 armors to all hellenic fighters.
Age of Strategy design leader
User avatar
b2198
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:48 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by b2198 »

Endru1241 wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:26 pm Decided, that strategos would be too high up, so went with taxiarchos (commander of batalion).
It's heavy melee and has high morale + unique aura giving 2 boosts:
- general boost of +1 power, +1/1 armors to hellenic fighters
- give 1 range aura to all hellenic big shield bearers, which effect is cumulative and gives +1/0 armors to all hellenic fighters.
Nice. Kinda similar to romans, but trading the need for researching legion training for a weaker version of its effect, so a bit more oriented towards the early game, which makes sense imo.
Green is the correct color, other colors are "less correct".
User avatar
DreJaDe
Posts: 2382
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 10:19 pm

Re: strategos-hellenic general

Post by DreJaDe »

Kinda wondering how it would look like
Post Reply

Return to “Unit - melee infantry”