Celtic Skirmisher IMPLEMENTED as Kern

[Badnorth]

Perhaps it is time to have a Foot skirmisher unit for the Celtic Faction.

Here is my suggestion of stats and image. This skirmisher unit would be different than other skirmishers in stats so it will be kinda unique. And probably the strongest skirmisher unit in the current AoS. It would even work decently against non-archer units.
Stats:
Celtic Skirmisher
Cost: 4
Trained at: Town Center and Veteran Roundhouse
Health: 14
Attack: 5
Range: 3
Actions: 2
Speed: 4
Armor: 1/5
Sight: 5
Mental Resistance: 25%
Damage Bonuses:
25% +1 Mounted
85% +4 Archers, Healers
100% +5 Mounted Archers
150% +7 Elephant Archers

Categories:
Throwing, Foot, Anti-archer, Celtic.

Affected by Warpaint.

What do you think @Endru1241?

[DreJaDe]

Since they are skirmishers

I think they could use the oblong shaped shield of the celts.

The shield could also use some dif colors.

[Badnorth]

I think they could use the oblong shaped shield of the celts.

Could you send a Reference image?

More colors: I'd prefer to keep the colors simple on the shield as it has team color in it.

[Badnorth]

Changed Shield and Brightened the colors on the Shield.

[DreJaDe]

Celts shields is kinda famous for their decorations on the front of their shield like color and patterns, I mean not accessories.

There's also those metal on the middle that you used as the team colored part? Those should look like it's sticking out.

[Badnorth]

Celts shields is kinda famous for their decorations on the front of their shield like color and patterns, I mean not accessories.

There's also those metal on the middle that you used as the team colored part? Those should look like it's sticking out.

I'll see what i can do to make their shields like that.

What do you mean? I didn't add any metal in the middle. It's team color (?)

[Badnorth]

@DreJaDe.

[Badnorth]

I made an upgraded image for it if it will ever have an upgrade. Just in-case.

If it doesn't. Then, idk. A skin maybe.

[DreJaDe]

I made an upgraded image for it if it will ever have an upgrade. Just in-case.

If it doesn't. Then, idk. A skin maybe.

Instead of a cuirass. Maybe just put a gambenson or padded clothes.

[Badnorth]

I'll do Padded. It seems fitting.

You support the idea of an Upgrade Dre? I'll try to make a stats for it then.

[Badnorth]

Here's my try.

Stats:
Elite Celtic Skirmisher
Cost: 4
Trained at: Town Center and Veteran Roundhouse
Health: 14 -> 16
Attack: 5
Range: 3 -> 4
Actions: 2
Speed: 4
Armor: 1/5 -> 1/7
Sight: 5
Mental Resistance: 25%
Damage Bonuses:
25% +1 Mounted
85% +4 Archers, Healers
100% +5 Mounted Archers
150% +7 Elephant Archers

Categories:
Throwing, Foot, Anti-archer, Celtic.

Affected by Warpaint.

Upgrade to Elite Celtic Skirmisher adds:
+ 0/2 armor
+ 1 Range
+ 2 Hp

Tech for research will cost 6 turns.

[Badnorth]

Should the upgrade have +1 more damage? Or are the proposed stats improvement enough already?

[Badnorth]

.

[phoenixffyrnig]

I like the thinking behind this idea. I have been having fun with the Celts recently. Great fun. But they are lacking in a few little areas - this unit covers some of them nicely. Such as a representation of the hit-and-run tactics for which they were famed, a unit with decent pierce armour, and a counter to the obvious counter of a Celt army, hordes of missile troops. Good work

Initially I couldn't see what justified a cost of 4, then I saw the double action...interesting

Is this instead of/ possibly along with / or the evolution of the Kern idea? If the old Kern is not going to be used I think the name should be applied to this unit just to iclude Kerns in the Celtic army.

[godOfKings]

Doesnt gaelic warrior have bonus against archers

[Badnorth]

I can imagine placing this skirmisher unit inside a Celtic Chariot. It would be nice. Throwing javelins at those nasty archers and seeing them being destroyed, it would pleasure me.

With +1 power via Aura effects or warpaint, this unit should be able to one-shot normal 11hp archers. It would even work decently towards non-archer units due to having 2 actions with 5 attack.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Yeah, but no armour. Basically a one-hit-wonder because it won't survive until next go. They can do a job against an archer or two, but against multiple missile units they're just target practice.

[Badnorth]

Doesnt gaelic warrior have bonus against archers

Gaelic fighter doesn't have the pierce armor to withstand volleys of arrows though.

Their attack and speed are awesome but that lack of pierce armor just makes them moving targets for archers.

[godOfKings]

Wait i remember, the celts r the only race with a strong chariot skirmisher leader unit

[Badnorth]

Wait i remember, the celts r the only race with a strong chariot skirmisher leader unit

Celtic Chieftain is not a pure skirmisher unit. It has 2/2 armor, 7 attack and has 40% +2 damage against ranged units.

[Badnorth]

Btw, @Endru1241. Image height of Celtic Skirmisher is at 31 pixels. But not counting the outline on his head and feet makes it 29 pixels in height.

I hope that is OK cuz i'm having lots of height problems recently xd.

[Badnorth]

Celtic Elite Skirmisher alas is taller due to that helmet i gave him.. Is that ok or... Not?

[godOfKings]

Actually i dont like the upgraded spear tip, it looks like a pike, its not suitable for a throwing spear

[Badnorth]

I'll change it tomorrow. It's very late in my time here.

I made it like that to form something like a harpoon. It looked cool, but not accurate as a throwing spear.

[Badnorth]

.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Bringing back to life a couple of old suggestions here. A Celtic unit that fills the role of skirmisher, something that could well be called a Kern. Its a role that is currently lacking in the Celtic roster, historically associated with hit-and-run ambush tactics and a punk rock DIY approach to fighting without professional grade equipment. The absence of a unit in this role is a weakness in a Celtic army imo. Two different suggestions

Elite Celtic Skirmisher
Cost: 4
Trained at: Town Center and Veteran Roundhouse
Health: 14 -> 16
Attack: 5
Range: 3 -> 4
Actions: 2
Speed: 4
Armor: 1/5 -> 1/7
Sight: 5
Mental Resistance: 25%
Damage Bonuses:
25% +1 Mounted
85% +4 Archers, Healers
100% +5 Mounted Archers
150% +7 Elephant Archers

Categories:
Throwing, Foot, Anti-archer, Celtic.

Affected by Warpaint.

Upgrade to Elite Celtic Skirmisher adds:
+ 0/2 armor
+ 1 Range
+ 2 Hp

Tech for research will cost 6 turns.

As for stats:
Cost: 3
Hp: 12
Atk: 6
Spd: 4
Rng: 4
Armor: 0/3
Sight: 6
Bonuses:
+40% archers
+85% mounted archers
+200% elephant archers
+50% Light, medium foot melee and flying
(So really - both archer and skirmisher bonuses scaled to more damage)

As it would be classified both as archer and anti-archer - with those stats they could actually fill both roles (albeit less effectively)

Credit to Badnorth and Endru for these stats, although both are from a long time ago, so should be considered as re-start points rather than final suggestions. I have my preference of the two but am reposting both in the hope that other people have opinions too.

[Endru1241]

I merged the topic, because refreshing the topic for propositions of new upgrades should be done in the same topic.
Only balance specific discussions, that had happy (or sad for some) implementation can be deemed closed and new balance discussion created in new topic.
It's not mandatory though.

As for actual topic - I'd probably use Badnorth stats, but with increase of attack by +1 on upgrade additionally.
And probably bonuses straight copied from skirmisher.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Yeah, sorry, my bad - it was in two separate old topics so I thought it would be easier to pick up the old threads and start a new topic, but obviously that was not ideal.

But yeah, I also like Badnorth's suggestion, the double attack is interesting, it adds a unique flavour (rather than a same unit for a different faction approach). The fact that his upgrade doesn't include an attack boost should keep it from being an OP menace. Possibility to take 1 attack off base unit to be given back on upgrade (considering Warpaint exists), but for me, this sort of unit is very fitting to the historical Celtic identity, as well as filling a substantial weakness in their roster.

[Endru1241]

With 6 on upgrade full powered endgame would have 10 (+1 warpaint, +2 blacksmith, +1 morale).
With changes on bonuses from +85% to +65% there is no damage difference on endgame.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Nice addition - Kern isn't available in the Celtic Roundhouse though