Custom limits for factories IMPLEMENTED

[Alexander82]

To achieve higher personalizations of the different variants of the game I think that this change would be of great benefit.

Since it seems that @Endru1241 wanted that change as well I think that, if @Stratego (dev) agrees, we might define in the initialization file the following things:

Base value for factories (how many factories we can build without a tc, now it is 0)

Base value for megas (how many mega buildings we can build without a tc, now it is 0)

Bonus factories for every tc (how many additional factories a tc grants, now it is 1)

Bonus megas for every tc (how many additional mega buildings a tc grants, now it is 1)

That would mean that, for example, I might define for AoF that every player can make at base 10 factories plus 3 for every tc and 1 mega building plus 1 more for every tc, while Endru1241 might want for AoS 5 factories plus 4 for every tc and 0 megas at base plus 2 for every tc, and that would allow us to make different choices without forcin those on other games of the franchise.

[Stratego (dev)]

AoS 5 factories plus 4 for every tc

you mean if player has 4 TC-s than he could build 5+4*4 = 21 factories?

[Endru1241]

AoS 5 factories plus 4 for every tc

you mean if player has 4 TC-s than he could build 5+4*4 = 21 factories?

It just an example probably.
I wrote about using floating point values - exactly 1.2 for regular factories and 0.8 for megas. If it would round properly it makes difference for 3 tcs at minimum.

[Alexander82]

Yes, as @e@Endru1241 said that was just an example but I would like the chance for every game to find its own balance.

In AoF some races rely on smithing more than others and they are sometimes at disadvantage when they have few tcs in smaller maps and can't both upgrade their units and produce soldiers

Also I would like to make rushes for tcs less important in the early turns

If you have a base amount of factory limit you can start building a base and can easily take back tcs from a player that rushed but didn't focus enough on production and has only a handful of scouts.

At the same time we can balance the amount of factories with the amount of megas (we might actually make one mega at base and one more every 3/4 tcs so that we have maps less filled with megas and more with factories,walls and towers)

[Alexander82]

I guess we might have something like

{"key":"DEFINE_BASE_FACTORIES_VALUE", "val":"10"}
{"key":"DEFINE_BASE_MEGA_BUILDINGS_VALUE", "val":"1"}
{"key":"DEFINE_TC_FACTORIES_MULTIPLIER", "val":"3"}
{"key":"DEFINE_TC_MEGA_BUILDINGS_MULTIPLIER", "val":"0.35"}

[Stratego (dev)]

ko, but i dont support that big amount of factories as we already have too many units build in a game so we have many many micro management. increasing that is not so good.

maybe the "minimal" value is fine, being 1 or 2 buildable factories without TC-s (but that will instantly rion many maps depended on not being able to build any factory)

[Alexander82]

The numbers can be adjusted later (I would prefer a higher starting base and less increase with tcs to favor more defensive strategies that now are just a suicide) but I think that pop limit already helps us preventing endless turns.

the main idea is making games different between each others and changing the balance between factories and megas

[Endru1241]

Base limit for factories could be activated upon condition of having at least one tc.
Or in other words - settings could be:
factory limit base = 0
factory limit for first tc
factory limit for 2nd and next tc
mega limit base
mega limit for first tc
mega limit for 2nd and next tc

[Alexander82]

maybe the "minimal" value is fine, being 1 or 2 buildable factories without TC-s (but that will instantly rion many maps depended on not being able to build any factory)

what if we add that as a option you can enable or disable in games?

We might call it "use specific factory values" and it might be enabled by default in random maps and multiplayer games while being disabled by default in campaign editor (or just being set as disabled in existing maps)

[Alexander82]

Base limit for factories could be activated upon condition of having at least one tc.
Or in other words - settings could be:
factory limit base = 0
factory limit for first tc
factory limit for 2nd and next tc
mega limit base
mega limit for first tc
mega limit for 2nd and next tc

I thought that too but I'd like it to be independent from having one tc (I know you have one at the start but I'd like to avoid that a rush to a single tc might prevent a player to continue building its base)

[Alexander82]

You know @Endru1241 on second thought your first tc idea has made me think of one thing...

What if we make 1st tc as player's capital?

Capital could have 2x production and might be able to produce any unit that your buildings/mega buildings are able to produce but no research(to avoid twice speed researching) and would, of course, grant a bigger amount of factories/megas in place of that base amount i suggested.

If a capital is captured the player who takes it might gain something (maybe money couriers or an extra bonus to the amount of factories) and you can choose a new capital

[makazuwr32]

Definately i like this idea (with exeption of capital for now, it must thinked further).

As for limits i'd like to see next:
Base limit for factories in aof (how many you factories you can build without tcs) - 4
Base limit of megas in aof - 1
Bonus limit of factories in aof per each tc - 1
Bonus limit of megas in aof per each tc - 0.5 or 0.34 (2 or 3 tcs you need per each mega)

[DreJaDe]

Why not make it a part of the setting?
There's a setting for how many TC u want for the game u will create. Why not add a setting for the number of factory per TC u want for the game. Then, experiment it on yourselves devs. Like, don't release it to us with normally released game and just do it with your dev game?

You know @Endru1241 on second thought your first tc idea has made me think of one thing...

What if we make 1st tc as player's capital?

Capital could have 2x production and might be able to produce any unit that your buildings/mega buildings are able to produce but no research(to avoid twice speed researching) and would, of course, grant a bigger amount of factories/megas in place of that base amount i suggested.

If a capital is captured the player who takes it might gain something (maybe money couriers or an extra bonus to the amount of factories) and you can choose a new capital

I really like this idea though I don't like the not having research in it. Wouldn't not be possible to just keep the amount of turns needed for research? Or just make the research double the amount in the TC for research or just keep the normal speed of research in the capital TC?

Also we have the fortified TC so you could use that a base for the capital TC thing.

[makazuwr32]

Alex meant that
1. Capital tc is at base availible without tech; initial spawn of player.
2. Capital tc has no techs because it will have 2 production lines at the same time.

If we will implement "capitals" i think it is fine for them to keep their special "capital" status.

[Endru1241]

I am against making default production boost. Maybe as a game mode, but not default, that would affect campaigns.
With capital being defined at the start there is also a problem with selecting. Which should be designed as one, when player starts with 2 or more tc.

Maybe it'll be better to move any limit increasing to unit stats.
So my proposal is making 6 new unit stats:
UnitCost
FactoryCost
MegaCost
UnitLimit
FactoryLimit
MegaLimit
And 1 constant to define - baseUnitLimit
Meanwhile map setting unit limit could be changed to multiplier of base or overall limit.
That's probably solution requiring the least coding, while giving most options.

Eventual capital can be added as unique on map 1 turn research upgrading tc, but it's something which needs more coding (double production), so I'd leave it for now.

Of course while doing it there could be an expansion - additionally introducing category limits, but that's also another topic.

[makazuwr32]

Hm... I think that as additional choosable at start of the game option base factory limit and base mega limit is fine (similar to amount of tcs or units limit).

[Endru1241]

That's fine. It wouldn't affect existing maps, as default would be as it is.

[Alexander82]

I am against making default production boost. Maybe as a game mode, but not default, that would affect campaigns.
With capital being defined at the start there is also a problem with selecting. Which should be designed as one, when player starts with 2 or more tc.

Maybe it'll be better to move any limit increasing to unit stats.
So my proposal is making 6 new unit stats:
UnitCost
FactoryCost
MegaCost
UnitLimit
FactoryLimit
MegaLimit
And 1 constant to define - baseUnitLimit
Meanwhile map setting unit limit could be changed to multiplier of base or overall limit.
That's probably solution requiring the least coding, while giving most options.

Eventual capital can be added as unique on map 1 turn research upgrading tc, but it's something which needs more coding (double production), so I'd leave it for now.

Of course while doing it there could be an expansion - additionally introducing category limits, but that's also another topic.

What you mean by cost?

Anyway my idea about it being "default" was to be already pinned in random/multiplayer game (like being the first option selected, like 200 for population)

Existing maps should keep their current option (which is strictly limited by having a tc or not) unless specifically changed by the map creator.

anyway I totally agree on having more options to use to customize the games.

[Alexander82]

@Stratego (dev) @Endru1241 While we add this would it be possible to add an additional counter for 2x2 units (mini-megas)?

[makazuwr32]

What about higher "factory" or "mega" count for 2x2 factories and 2x3 megas? Maybe 2 "factories"/"megas" per mentioned building.

[Stratego (dev)]

sorry for it, but i have not planned to put these in (would be too many coding)

[Alexander82]

do you mean the additional counter or the custom limits?

[Stratego (dev)]

impl

[Maxbirykov2004]

So... guys i search something interesting in this topic, and found this, so... guys I have crazy idea.
Let's make unlimited factories and mega buildings, but give some economics in game. Let's create a game value for example gold...
And let's create game mechanics when Tc and mines and some other buildings give this gold. And factories take gold and develop units. And Towers and some mega buildings also take gold and develop Attacks. If gold is out factories don't give units, and Towers don't shoot...
At firstly its is not my idea, L4cus start talking about upkeep. And guys I see here dev and Aos and Aof moderators... And i really i don't know, will you listen me or not...

[makazuwr32]

that is uniqueness of this game because it has little amount of econimics.
If we will add it than it will become something between Age of Empired (android game that was before java game from 2005-2006) and Heroes of Might and Magic. And it would be not that intresting one.

Current system is the best.

[Maxbirykov2004]

that is uniqueness of this game because it has little amount of econimics.
If we will add it than it will become something between Age of Empired (android game that was before java game from 2005-2006) and Heroes of Might and Magic. And it would be not that intresting one.

Current system is the best.

Ok