Structures with no bonuses.

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Savra
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Structures with no bonuses.

Post by Savra »

I've noticed these structures don't have bonuses:
Castle
Imperial fortress
Fortress
Guard tower
Warfell fort
Great tree
Mansion
Bone tower
And you can guess that most scaledfolks buildings capable of fighting don't have bonuses.

The only ones with bonuses are:
Volcano
Stone shelter
Kingdom under the mountain
Dwarf guard tower
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Shark guy 35
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by Shark guy 35 »

Noticed that too, what bonuses would they have though?
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Anchar
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by Anchar »

Again, the orcs have advanced technologies. By the way, the mega buildings lizard also have bonuses.
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Savra
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by Savra »

I'd say the all structures that use archers to defend them should have the same bonuses as archers do.

The orcs and dwarves ones makes sense the way they are with there bonuses, however the dwarven towers and mega should be effected by there ranged and cannon upgrades.

Scaledfolks I believe their towers, at least in the future, would have throwers so probably base their bonuses based off those.


Also, it might be nice if wolves gained a 10% bonus to infantry, making them slightly more effective as a defensive unit.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by makazuwr32 »

Actually we will remove all bonuses from structures in the first place. They most not have those.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Savra
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by Savra »

That doesn't make much sense, as that would make it harder for them to defend your base. Though they will have higher health this doesn't make them that much more difficult to deal with unless bonuses are applied.

Give human towers the same bonuses as archers for example and you end up with a fairly decent defense that can hold it's own against enemy infantry fairly well. Structures that make sense on not having bonuses are the ones that don't use conventional weapons. Those would probably have side effects that work for them instead.

Without bonuses the structures like the humans towers would be doing very little damage to units like dwarves and orcs shielded units. (For example an olog hai, who you would have to rely on the burning effect to kill)

Though your likely to produce units to help fend off enemy Invaders, the towers are supposed to be your means of turning the tide, but they can't do that very well if they're doing 1 damage or the equivalent of 1 damage with the upscaling. Making your only reliable defence being your soldiers themselves.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by makazuwr32 »

Savra wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:45 pm That doesn't make much sense, as that would make it harder for them to defend your base. Though they will have higher health this doesn't make them that much more difficult to deal with unless bonuses are applied.

Give human towers the same bonuses as archers for example and you end up with a fairly decent defense that can hold it's own against enemy infantry fairly well. Structures that make sense on not having bonuses are the ones that don't use conventional weapons. Those would probably have side effects that work for them instead.

Without bonuses the structures like the humans towers would be doing very little damage to units like dwarves and orcs shielded units. (For example an olog hai, who you would have to rely on the burning effect to kill)

Though your likely to produce units to help fend off enemy Invaders, the towers are supposed to be your means of turning the tide, but they can't do that very well if they're doing 1 damage or the equivalent of 1 damage with the upscaling. Making your only reliable defence being your soldiers themselves.
First of all archers will have reworked bonuses — no longer bonus damage against infantries with shields.

Second — armor increase will be lower than attack increase and thus damage dealt to enemy units will be more feelable than it is right now. Even without bonuses.
Armor will be upscaled only up to x2 of current values (alas some units can receive later for balancing additional +1/+1 — +3/+3 to their basic armors. Mostly units without armor right now) while attack will be upscaled x3 times. In variant of human fortress (basic and maxed) against human shielder (maxed) fortress will have 18/21/24 attack while shielder will have 16 armor (maybe later a bit higher but not too high, more like +1/+1 or +2/+2 at most). Thus tower will be able to deal more than 1 damage to him.

Third — towers are not supposed to be "Turning tides" all-round disintegrators. They just supposed to be holders of enemy with some additional damage output. Undeads by the way deal even less damage to enemies.

Fourth — if needed we can later increase attack or give other buffs to HEAVY/COSTLY towers. Yes we will divide towers onto 2 types: cheap ones and costly ones. Parapet of elves by the way will be costly and more tough than outpost.

And last thing — please restrict all talks about bonuses up until we will rework all categories. Right now they are such a mess. This will be probably soon after upscale.

About upscale: reason why we are giving lower armor values as opposed to attack is for 3 points:
1. To let ranged units apart from elves actually deal more damage to end game enemies. Elves will get their power base ability reworked into armor piercing ability (reduces for hit specifically armor of attacked unit by fixed value).
2. To give more range for armor values. Especially for dwarves. They will become later only race with close to impenetrable for some ranged units armors
3. To make endgame faster: since armors will be lower it will be faster to kill enemies, even toughest ones.

Alas a bit lower armors will be compensated with higher health increases: x4 times right now for all units.

Later some races can get even higher health i crease multiplier at cost of lower armor (i am partially against this but it is under discussion).
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Savra
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by Savra »

I'll wait till after the rebalance then, but I still say after the bonuses categories get fixed archer towers should get same bonuses as archers (it makes no sense if for example the orcs cheap tower that literally has a goblin archer on top and drops it on destruction, doesn't have the same bonuses as the archer it dropped.)
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Alexander82
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by Alexander82 »

I think that those buildings should have the proper bonus used by that weapon type (e.g. arrows shooting towers can have archer bonuses).

Many buildings and units, especially those coming from AoS, weren't never, or almost never, touched, so they might have lacking or strange bonuses.

Since humans have 2 towers that shoot arrows we might give the short ranged tower the crossbowmen's bonuses and the fortress the archers' bonuses.

That would also make the cheaper tower a more viable choice under the right circumstances (like the enemy using a lot of infantry units).
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makazuwr32
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by makazuwr32 »

i'd say for now we do not need any bonuses for towers but instead they should have slightly higher attack than of corresponding unit.

Megas will be replanned later.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Savra
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Re: Structures with no bonuses.

Post by Savra »

They will get bonuses as planned originally by alex.
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