Insane Orc unable to move after being built

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D00Med
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Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by D00Med » Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:59 am

In two separate games, one multi, one single, I've built the "Insane Orc" only to find out I can't move him. I can see the grey squares indicating where he should be able to move to in the current turn, but he simply won't. Not a huge deal but it has given my multi opponent an early advantage as I've effectively wasted 5 turns of building, which can be significant in the early part of a small map game. He ain't gotta me yet though... ;)

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b2198
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by b2198 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:41 am

Wrong section. This is for AoS, but don't worry, it will probably get moved to the AoF part of the forum soon.
Green is the correct color, other colors are "less correct".

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makazuwr32
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:03 am

@Stratego (dev)
Savra mention this already but i should remind.

Please change "ai controlled" units so they will completely ignore surroundings and will advance onto enemy in berserk state.
They should not try to capture buildings.
They should not try to protect buildings or tcs.
They should not try to go and recuperate once they are wounded.
They should not fear death.

As for topic:
Insane orc has specific "ai controlled" tag (that has good amount of issues). Because of it Insane orc should not be movable as player wants by any means.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Stratego (dev)
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:22 pm

Why do i need to remove those ai features? They all seems to be good.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:41 pm

they make ai controlled units to be reliable only for defending.
and i mean that Olog hai with 540 hp, 135 attack and 20/20 armor will not exit tc even if only unit nearby is wolf with 32 hp, 21 attack and 0/4 armor who can't capture anything to kill that wolf.

What do we want from ai controlled units is to act as berserkers - mindless rush into enemy and slashing everything on their way.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Vladneral
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by Vladneral » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:07 am

Mak means: is it possible to make such behavior not for all ai, but for specific units that ai controlled: from default (insane orc, feral warg spirit etc) and for units that stand ai controlled after spell (enchant frenzy) ?
So for this units that default ai controlled and units that have such buff need another ai behavior - that Mak texted above.
Is it possible ?

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makazuwr32
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:27 am

If to be more clear:
I do not ask to change regular ai easy or ai hard behaviour. That one is fine.

What do i want to change is behaviour of "ai controlled" specification for units the way i described above.
Since currently that specification is useful only to scare enemy units from your own so they will run to nearby tcs to protect them.

Once again:
No changes required for normal ai behaviour, only for "ai controlled" specification.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
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Stratego (dev)
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:13 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:27 am
If to be more clear:
I do not ask to change regular ai easy or ai hard behaviour. That one is fine.

What do i want to change is behaviour of "ai controlled" specification for units the way i described above.
Since currently that specification is useful only to scare enemy units from your own so they will run to nearby tcs to protect them.

Once again:
No changes required for normal ai behaviour, only for "ai controlled" specification.
we can do it DIFFERENT WAY, we must not change "ai controlled" that MUST work as it is now: so behave like other normal AI units.

so we never make a general setting to be "specific" moreover we never make it to be specific only for AOF.

what we can make a NEW flag like "behaves berzerk" or someething, meaning in case of AI controlling (either by the "ai controlled" OR the normal AI control when it is in AI posession) it will behave differently. so this case these units will need both flags: "ai controlled" AND "behaves berzerk"

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makazuwr32
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:51 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:13 am
makazuwr32 wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:27 am
If to be more clear:
I do not ask to change regular ai easy or ai hard behaviour. That one is fine.

What do i want to change is behaviour of "ai controlled" specification for units the way i described above.
Since currently that specification is useful only to scare enemy units from your own so they will run to nearby tcs to protect them.

Once again:
No changes required for normal ai behaviour, only for "ai controlled" specification.
we can do it DIFFERENT WAY, we must not change "ai controlled" that MUST work as it is now: so behave like other normal AI units.

so we never make a general setting to be "specific" moreover we never make it to be specific only for AOF.

what we can make a NEW flag like "behaves berzerk" or someething, meaning in case of AI controlling (either by the "ai controlled" OR the normal AI control when it is in AI posession) it will behave differently. so this case these units will need both flags: "ai controlled" AND "behaves berzerk"
Any solution that will provide desired result is fine for me as long as it is not bugged.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
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Stratego (dev)
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:30 pm

ok i made a new spec:
"AI_NO_DEFEND_TC"
also i found an existing one "NO_LOOK_FOR_HEAL" that can be used to not look for heal if gets damaged.

Pedro constitute
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by Pedro constitute » Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:40 am

Hello afternoon or morning ? Devs, it's me Pedro constitute, just wanted to message here since I've been playing the game and I am reporting the same issue, the knwon units as the insane orc cannot be moved after being build, thus are not preferable to use or create for a match, can we have an update that fixes this issue. it would be nice to have a unit called the insane orc be used in combat.

Also just general good luck on your day and have a nice weekend! :D

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diesel
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by diesel » Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:36 pm

Pedro constitute wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:40 am
Hello afternoon or morning ? Devs, it's me Pedro constitute, just wanted to message here since I've been playing the game and I am reporting the same issue, the knwon units as the insane orc cannot be moved after being build, thus are not preferable to use or create for a match, can we have an update that fixes this issue. it would be nice to have a unit called the insane orc be used in combat.

Also just general good luck on your day and have a nice weekend! :D

Hi Pedro! The insane orc is controlled by AI, NOT by the player.

The conversation here is to make it run into attack, not to seek TCs or healing. In the future it should be more "insane"!

I hope you understand what I mean about this unit.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:35 am

Pedro constitute wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:40 am
Hello afternoon or morning ? Devs, it's me Pedro constitute, just wanted to message here since I've been playing the game and I am reporting the same issue, the knwon units as the insane orc cannot be moved after being build, thus are not preferable to use or create for a match, can we have an update that fixes this issue. it would be nice to have a unit called the insane orc be used in combat.

Also just general good luck on your day and have a nice weekend! :D
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:03 am
...
Insane orc has specific "ai controlled" tag (that has good amount of issues). Because of it Insane orc should not be movable as player wants by any means.
The fact that player can't move that specific unit (as well as few other summoned units or units under certain spells) IS NOT A BUG. It is planned to work that way.
The issue is that they do not behave like bersekers running into enemy without caring about own health or defending tcs.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
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D00Med
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by D00Med » Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:54 am

Sorry about the misplaced topic, this was my first and I shall pay better attention henceforth.

I now understand the "Insane" status, in it's AI control.

In showing my ignorance twice already with topic location and unit status, allow me to shoot for a 3rd query that I should certainly know already, but, where was I to learn of the mechanics of 'Insane" status? I've not seen such a unit in any other AO games. Again, it's probably staring me right in the ugly mug, but I missed it.

Now that I understand the unit, I think it is an awesome idea with tons of potential! Kudos to whomever thought this little twist up.

To the categorically nuts, gracias,

D00Med

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makazuwr32
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Re: Insane Orc unable to move after being built

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:30 am

It is not status but just a name.
We had idea for S.A.M.H.A.W.K. — Self Aware Mechanical Humanoid Autonomous Warfell Knight.

And it also will be ai controlled.

In plans for future there are some abilities which will grant to allies or enemies ai controlled specification.

As for unit itself — it is actually i think first to have that specification in all ao games so far so of course there will be some problems.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
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