CoolGuy Balancing IMPLEMENTED

Put here any ideas, suggestions about unit or structure properties.
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Badnorth
Posts: 4121
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:22 pm

Re: coolguy must be banned in normal game

Post by Badnorth »

You're being hasty, we should do as stratego said, and it is wait.
we will probably see the results of the nerf later on.

Nerf's should be implemented little by little in order to see the effects clearly, not going all way in asap. Wait for some time and see the outcome of the current nerf.
For newcomers, click here for discord links. Hopefully they aren't expired.
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Endru1241
Posts: 2717
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:43 am
Location: Poland

Re: coolguy must be banned in normal game

Post by Endru1241 »

@digimon666
You are stating the same for 3rd time.
Apples vs oranges.
Invalid comparisons.
There is no other legendary unit, so any comparison is failed from the beginning.

Your examples don't consider the scale and repeatability at all.

Yeah, coolguy aura bonus is very good, but very limited too.
Want some comparisons?

High morale aura affects 40 units at once, while coolguy only 4.
40x1 = 40 additional damage, 4x5 = 20 additional damage
Archery is much worse though. It affects up to 200 units at once, that's 200 additional damage forever, without any need to stay in range of some aura.

If we are talking about range increases only 1 unit can utilise it to the full (2 if coolguy moves, 4 if units move too, but those are siege machines, so most loose much of power and some range if they can move). All others have to be in the back, so usable range is lower.
If said 1 or 2 units are catapults - 10 range is easily countered by 11 effective range light cav in wagon, or 15 effective range fire archer in wagon.
Coolguy itself can be attacked by poison archer with the same range. Or dedicated counter unit - ranger, that even in hidden form can deal 10 damage from range 8 (15 effective range ) or 12 damage from normal form in 16 effective range.

Usability as defending unit in early games is dwarfed by said "negibible" healing bonus decrease and allows to destroy coolguy much easier.
After which you can be the guy getting him.

One more thing - coolguy is only able to boost units on one front.
Take a game with 4 players and 2nd front has to be dealt without his boosts - logistics limits on this unit is huge.

Compare a game when one player went for siege and utilises coolguy vs another who went for archers or cavalry.

I have dealt with one greatest imbalance - construction bonus.
Seeing comments I decided on changing the cost to lower impact on early game (counter units production time comparison).
Healing bonus is lowered to decrease usage as a defender for tc.
But 3 things won't change:
- resilience against regular units. He is supposed to bring counter units vs him.
- boost to siege machines has to be significant enough to matter, to make him usable in that department.
- legendary status - I'll never make him only unique, because that is representation of one specific person. There is only one CoolGuy.

And lastly the most important of all:
- Coolguy unit is an important artifact left by great contributor to this game - CoolGuy. He designed this unit in specific way, so I want to retain the feel.
- Stratego - the one and only. Creator of this FREE game. The greatest contributor of all. Keeper of the code. Fixer of bugs. One person, that none of this would be possible without, sees balance of easter egg units in specific way.
And he specifically asked to leave this topic alone for now.
The game already lost good few hours (or more) of coding, of possible new features, of fixing errors on this freaking topic.
Annoyance is not a good companion for contributing.
He is losing patience, he is losing time.
We are loosing precious developer input.
I have seen good devs leaving projects alone, because they were tired of people nagging. I don't want to see it happen to AoS (and related).
WE HAVE TO COMPLY!
Age of Strategy design leader
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Hyuhjhih
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:22 am
Location: Earth, (the part of blue ball and is named India for some reasons)

Re: coolguy must be banned in normal game

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Endru1241 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:52 am @digimon666
You are stating the same for 3rd time.
Apples vs oranges.
Invalid comparisons.
There is no other legendary unit, so any comparison is failed from the beginning.

Your examples don't consider the scale and repeatability at all.

Yeah, coolguy aura bonus is very good, but very limited too.
Want some comparisons?

High morale aura affects 40 units at once, while coolguy only 4.
40x1 = 40 additional damage, 4x5 = 20 additional damage
Archery is much worse though. It affects up to 200 units at once, that's 200 additional damage forever, without any need to stay in range of some aura.

If we are talking about range increases only 1 unit can utilise it to the full (2 if coolguy moves, 4 if units move too, but those are siege machines, so most loose much of power and some range if they can move). All others have to be in the back, so usable range is lower.
If said 1 or 2 units are catapults - 10 range is easily countered by 11 effective range light cav in wagon, or 15 effective range fire archer in wagon.
Coolguy itself can be attacked by poison archer with the same range. Or dedicated counter unit - ranger, that even in hidden form can deal 10 damage from range 8 (15 effective range ) or 12 damage from normal form in 16 effective range.

Usability as defending unit in early games is dwarfed by said "negibible" healing bonus decrease and allows to destroy coolguy much easier.
After which you can be the guy getting him.

One more thing - coolguy is only able to boost units on one front.
Take a game with 4 players and 2nd front has to be dealt without his boosts - logistics limits on this unit is huge.

Compare a game when one player went for siege and utilises coolguy vs another who went for archers or cavalry.

I have dealt with one greatest imbalance - construction bonus.
Seeing comments I decided on changing the cost to lower impact on early game (counter units production time comparison).
Healing bonus is lowered to decrease usage as a defender for tc.
But 3 things won't change:
- resilience against regular units. He is supposed to bring counter units vs him.
- boost to siege machines has to be significant enough to matter, to make him usable in that department.
- legendary status - I'll never make him only unique, because that is representation of one specific person. There is only one CoolGuy.

And lastly the most important of all:
- Coolguy unit is an important artifact left by great contributor to this game - CoolGuy. He designed this unit in specific way, so I want to retain the feel.
- Stratego - the one and only. Creator of this FREE game. The greatest contributor of all. Keeper of the code. Fixer of bugs. One person, that none of this would be possible without, sees balance of easter egg units in specific way.
And he specifically asked to leave this topic alone for now.
The game already lost good few hours (or more) of coding, of possible new features, of fixing errors on this freaking topic.
Annoyance is not a good companion for contributing.
He is losing patience, he is losing time.
We are loosing precious developer input.
I have seen good devs leaving projects alone, because they were tired of people nagging. I don't want to see it happen to AoS (and related).
WE HAVE TO COMPLY!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thats was some nice talk.
LIE = Love Is Eternal.

Design leader of the variants Age of Gods and Age Of Civilization, and live heartedly contributing to AoS.

AoC discord server is up AoC
User avatar
Badnorth
Posts: 4121
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:22 pm

Re: coolguy must be banned in normal game

Post by Badnorth »

I agree with Endru's reply, all of it. So, Seriously, Let's close this topic for now. No replies, No more related Nerf discussions and so on.
For newcomers, click here for discord links. Hopefully they aren't expired.
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