Merc longbow rebalance

[Badnorth]

Players nowadays prefer to use merc longbow than any other ranged units.
Reason:
Cheap
Spammable
Elite longbow strengths
Easily accessible
High hp despite being an archer

They are very deadly In early game and in small maps because of those reasons. They make infantry obsolete thanks to its high damage and long range. Merc long bow is too op.

Is there anyway to make this unit weaker? As of now they are the top 1 ranged unit being used imo. Every match has those mutants.

[Hyuhjhih]

I can add : it is so out powered so it is so used than other mercenaries. I wont suggest balancing it. Rather add a mercenary factory that is limited as other factories.cause i often get spammed by varangians and merc Longbowman upon bridges.

[Badnorth]

Spamming merc is annoying. In my game with a certain player it only spammed a ton of mercenary longbow + condottiero. Mercenaries make the other units obsolete in early game. Players nowadays use mercenaries for spam to win. Merc long bow also damages factories by 2 or 3 and a ton of them can destroy a single factory.

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

... Did I play a game vs an alt of yours? Because that's exactly my strat . Also that's what the mercs are made for: they are more trained than most other troops because they are already elites, and they are looking for cash with their skills. They are made exactly for quick spam: short turns to make, high damage, and without pay quickly dying. I don't think a nerf would be good for anyone: lots of people would no longer use it because now its not as good as other units, like it was before. So it would see a big dip in usage. And if a unit is barely used why keep it around. So overall its better to keep it as it is, and maybe make some way of anti merc or converting mercs (like maybe using pay merc group near enemy mercs converts them)

[Hyuhjhih]

The point is mercenaries are Elite.its ok .
It can be used as a spams in emergencies.
But getting too many mercs together (and especially with condottier) makes it really annoying.
I would suggest a separate factory which can be used as the only merc producing. The [*]leaving I think is intentional to keep mercs from moving long enough to take advantage. But since condottier came it is op to use all merc strategy.
So mercs should be rebalance. I also added a similar point of view in Re: Mercenary Camp

[Badnorth]

Most of the players I fought (Mostly inexperienced eg. Newbie) Spammed mercenary longbows, varangians and condottiero. These mercenaries make other units obsolete and unused. mercenary longbow for example has already supreme stats (can be even buffed via blacksmith upgrades and buffs) They can heavily damage units with little armor. In early game a laborer gets one shotted by a merc longbow. They are pretty deadly in small maps.

I hope endru considers a tech to train the mercs to avoid spam (not food).

[DreJaDe]

Dont know why but merc longbow is not op to me butnrather the skirmisher one. Most my games with merc spammer spam skirmisher merc making the longbow useless also because they deny the condotiere more easily. By the time the longbow is viable the normal one is already upgraded that the merc one seems useless.

[Badnorth]

Yes, thats what the mercs are made for. Cheaper than their counterparts but has a leaving. they are elite units because they are not drafted they are hired. But what I mean is the merc longbow being deadly in small maps. This makes me not to join smaller maps.

Routier is easily counterable imo. They can be defeated in a few hits and are easily replaced once the 3rd tier of skirmisher is researched. Same for bill man and varangian.

[Badnorth]

Mercenary spam should be prevented via having a tech to hire mercenaries.
Which already has a topic but it is most likely to be writing.

[Endru1241]

I agree, that there is a clear difference between some mercs. But I have no idea how to balance it.
If all mercs needed some pricier tech - it would decrease all their usage (that's why writing idea).
Mercenary longbow could get e.g. -1 to power or some hp decrese for another turn of leaving, but would it solve difference? Wouldn't it make this unit much less useful?

[Badnorth]

I agree, that there is a clear difference between some mercs. But I have no idea how to balance it.
If all mercs needed some pricier tech - it would decrease all their usage (that's why writing idea).
Mercenary longbow could get e.g. -1 to power or some hp decrese for another turn of leaving, but would it solve difference? Wouldn't it make this unit much less useful?

Maybe, but condottiero is always nearby and the high morale already solves it. The spam is just annoying, mercenaries also decrease the usage of certain units btw. Some players don't upgrade their mercenary counterparts they just continue to spam merc. Mercenary longbow is also hard to kill so a decrease in hp will also be good.

[Hyuhjhih]

I think the group pay of condottiere keeps the unbalanced spamming.

[Hyuhjhih]

And leaving(6) is too high better to be (4)
Is my opinion

[Badnorth]

I think the group pay of condottiere keeps the unbalanced spamming.

Not exactly. The reason the spam keeps happening is because all the mercenaries (Excluding disband knight and stradiot) are available in towns. Condottiero should be in the merc camp imo. The group pay only makes the mercenaries in a 3×3 area stay longer by 4 turns ? (Correct me if im wrong).