Build ability of Roman legionaries ANSWERED

[Sombrar +1]

Good morning, I created this topic precisely to discuss the Roman legionnaires' building ability, as there are still some about how far their building abilities can go in the game still leaving them balanced, to start some additions that could be made would be for them to be able to build Bridges, at least those made of wood or the wood that is weaker than the worker does, I don't see how something that gets to be so strong besides that there are already examples of bridges built by legionaries so it's something that would make a lot of sense in the game, another addition could be they use some trap who knows? At least the steppe trap, which is not a very strong trap but it can really slow down the enemy, also being used by them to slow down cavalry attacks as they were focused on infantry, as well as building watchtowers although I believe it's something that wouldn't be so balanced once the player had the watchtowers upgraded but it would be interesting, these buildings could be blocked by a technology that would block their construction for the legionaries preventing them from already getting a lot of advantage in the "Medium" part of the game,something like "Advanced Engineering" or "Military Engineering", another thing I wonder about is their repair capabilities, as several things might not be added to them for the sake of balance, so something like being able to repair buildings could be a good alternative, maybe lowering your build capacity a bit so it doesn't get too annoying trying to destroy a construction and the opponent is managing to repair, for example, a tower with only legionaries, so the repair could be extended if possible to siege machines and simple towers such as a guard tower.

[godOfKings]

A player literally spammed palisades around me and blocked me in then rained arrows on me and massacred me... so no

[Sombrar +1]

It's really sad this story ...but well, maybe just the addition of the wooden bridge can do, I don't see how something that strong, at least it's an interesting addition and makes them more efficient and more realistic like a legion of heavy infantry like building skills.

[Endru1241]

Bridges give strategical advantage.
If Legionaries could make them, then any other culture would need to bring super fragile workers or laborers, while romans could move just fine with much sturdier heavy infantry.
And it could start the arms race in construction capabilities - propositions of other culture special builders or mix of builders/warriors.

Their current build capability is quite nice in regards of representing, that legionaries built things, when not fighting.
Being capable of road or most basic fortifications construction already warranties, that they are not idle, so it's already huge bonus.

As for realism - legions employed professional engineers and craftsmen too. They were in separate units, e.g. fabrum centuriae.
Regular legionaries commonly participated in basic construction tasks like levering the terrain, getting the wood, road construction.
Generally all more complicated tasks were managed by fabri.
For in game purpose fabri would be just a unit identical to Workers, so there is no much reason to make it separate.

[Sombrar +1]

As for this issue of faction-specific workers, I believe they are units that could serve well ideas of building your faction structures but other things can easily be replaced by the builders we already have in the game, so for me this could be better discussed when all factions are "Complete" from what I see, now as for bridges I don't I consider it to be something that is very strong although it would clearly give some advantages to the Romans but nothing too absurd perhaps, as well as preferring to suggest only simple constructions rather than at the same time would fit well on them wouldn't be too strong although some additions can really be worrying as shown that caltrops could be added as a trap instead of the wolf hole being the second one a trap that can easily replace the function of the palisades so they would only be left with a poison trap that is not very strong but manages to slow down enemy units without entirely replacing the stockades and still fitting into their tactics of trying to engage cavalry and how many other constructions you prefer not to suggest because it could leave them Op or very strong like for example stronger towers like a shooting tower or something like strong even a wooden one if it comes to be be added to the game where these builds would be by specialized building units like the normal builder.

Oh and of course that wouldn't be a very prioritized thing considering that it takes time for you to get Roman tactics into the game at the beginning and it only becomes effective in the middle of the "Timescale" like that as it should be and being well balanced and the player having to use other units in the meantime.

[Endru1241]

Unfortunately list of what can be build cannot change during the game - it's engine limitation.
Locking something behind the tech locks it for everyone, so only completely new units could be manipulated like that and probably only those unique to roman, so it decreases the incentive to bring any into the game.
Also - about mentioned repair capabilities - it's another engine limitation. If legionaries could repair things, they could also construct them as the only limitation in engine is spec "Limited construction", which also affects repair. Also there is no way to remove specs in midst of a game.
That limits options here.

While I am against adding bridges, some kind of trap (but the two existing don't fit imho) or proto-tower (1 garrison, no shooting) is not outside balance.

[Sombrar +1]

hmm I understand the situation, at least I can keep the hope of a tower for them as mentioned, maybe something like a "Border Tower" or "Guarita", even something similar to Roman towers like the Castellums normally used as signal towers it seems, something similar has already been suggested in a thread for this type of tower for the Romans, it could be a somewhat sturdy tower similar to the guard tower with good eyesight, no attack, no seeing cloaked units and with a little healing if possible.

[godOfKings]

I dont remember current build list but i think, palisade palisade gate roads and frisian horse is good enough,

[Sombrar +1]

Well, at the moment the Legionnaire's build list involves: Palisade, Palisade Gate, Dirt Road, Stone Road, Land Clearing and Trenches.

Yes, I agree that currently the construction capacity is very good, in fact I created this topic precisely to clarify some doubts I had about how far the construction of the legionaries and also whether the wooden bridge could become viable as an addition to them.Taking advantage of the topic, I wanted to know how exactly the limitation of building roads over buildings works, because actually at the moment only builders have the ability to build roads over buildings, is there some kind of limitation in this case or is it intentional for the sake of some balance?

[Endru1241]

Road over buildings would need another pair of abilities, as currently in engine parameters like amount of turns taken from effect (which road over building uses) are constant and impossible to be affected.

[Stratego (dev)]

remark: be careful spreading worker (mending) abilities as AI might start using them wrongly.

[Endru1241]

remark: be careful spreading worker (mending) abilities as AI might start using them wrongly.

That's another reason why I don't want to add bridge building abilities to legionaries.
And why I don't want more units with construction.

But my last post was about three effects:
- place road over building (suspended place decoration)
- place stone road over building (suspended place decoration)
- build road over building (instant, decrease effects above lasting)

[Sombrar +1]

Ah I see, well thank you for clarifying my doubt, it will help me in some things as well as my questioning about the bridges.

[DreJaDe]

While I am against adding bridges, some kind of trap (but the two existing don't fit imho) or proto-tower (1 garrison, no shooting) is not outside balance.

Maybe this could be used as a roman tower?

Kinda wanted to do a whole skin for romans but kinda not possible now since they are already a culture of their own.

[Sombrar +1]

The sprite was very beautiful

[godOfKings]

And definitely no guard tower, he can literally place wagons with legion inside a town and build guard tower next to it, even palisades around town makes it hard to recapture