At Least One Anti-Heavy-Unit Infantry Upgrade in Barrack

[Aral_Yaren]

It was when I faced the situation needed to get anti heavy unit infantry that I found not a single one (both are maceman and flailman) upgrade on barrack: the first in Viking Hall (long story) but the later in Veche Izhba.

I think we need to split one of them to be in barrack as regular or standard anti heavy unit infantry. I suggest it's maceman upgrade to be removed into barrack as Viking Hall already have at least 4 unit upgrade (axe knight, svardstavier, elite axe thrower, balance throwing) without maceman upgrade.

Note: somehow svardstavier upgrade hangs around in barrack. We don't need this, as there are at least 3 anti mounted infantry upgrade in barrack already, 2 of it are useful in its way of war.

[L4cus]

why not adding a 2 turn clubman? with 2 upgrades like swordman or archer it would be a good adition as a quick anti heavy response...well, there is thracian flaxman doing that role so i dont really like the idea...

[Aral_Yaren]

1. Thraxian falxman is MERC, not REGULAR unit (do see unit help section).

2. The proposed regular unit upgrade is for late game unit. The puny thraxian falxman has no long term value with its stand as MERC in late game.

3. Furthermore, its damage is relatively low compared to elite maceman or elite flailman.

4. I've explained why AoS need to consider the main idea of this thread.

[godOfKings]

Use knights, if cheap anti heavy unit is all u need to deal with heavy infantry, y would anybody invest so much turns in upgrading heavy infantry? Its cuz heavy infantry is getting one shot by cheaper anti heavy ones that people r substituting them for cheaper defenders to play the same role

[Aral_Yaren]

I'm asking about infantry, just like the above title shows clearly.

One thing: anybody might invest upgrading infantry so much because anybody knows one thing - cavalry unfit in siege tower, mantlet and elephant.

[godOfKings]

All the anti-infantry infantry unit upgrades belong in different cultures though, celt warrior, maceman, flaiman, clubman, with barracks u can still make the anti-infantry units while upgrading them in the separate cultural buildings

[DreJaDe]

All the anti-infantry infantry unit upgrades belong in different cultures though, celt warrior, maceman, flaiman, clubman, with barracks u can still make the anti-infantry units while upgrading them in the separate cultural buildings

I think he's talking about normal units vs normal units more.

Heavy inf available in barracks with it's upg. But no anti heavy is.

If that's the case then I think his suggestion stands and is a good idea to consider.

[godOfKings]

But it is also true that only foot knight is the generic heavy infantry that can b upgraded, while other cultural heavy infantry cannot b upgraded

And the generic counter to heavy foot knight is mounted knight which can only b upgraded in stables, if u want to counter heavy infantry the generic way, u need to use same cost mounted knight, if u want to use cheaper anti heavy units that also deal more damage than mounted knights, then u have to use other indirect methods like investing in cultural buildings, so i think it is alright, its fair for people who invest in foot knights

[DreJaDe]

Knights are general counter to infantry. And I don't think foot knights are the generic heavy inf. I think that was the shielder which came before it.

[Endru1241]

Heavy cavalry are general counter to infantry, but the heavier it is - more effective counter.
They only have +20-25% vs light infantry, but 60-75% vs heavy.

Foot knights are generic heavy infantry.
Shielders are cheaper, more limited and specialised in defence.


But macemen could have an upgrade on barrracks.
Maybe when some other medium infantry with upgrades would be added to nordic hall.

[L4cus]

i think restricting foot knights techs to require a castle to be produced in barracks could nerf knights as well? or just make castle the only producer for those techs?

[Endru1241]

Nerfing foot knights is not what this topic was created for.
Besides - do they need any nerf?
I think they are in just right place with knights as counter.
Plus there is few more heavy infantry from various cultures, that you'd still look to counter.