Druid gaess survive

[godOfKings]

@Endru1241
Right now the situation is such that when gaess survive is used, the celt is difficult to kill but after next turn, the spell disappears so player can now boost the unit with offensive spells, kill as many enemies as possible, then once again use gaess survive making it difficult for me to kill his celts while he can keep attacking me.

My suggestion is make gaess survive last 2 turns instead of current 1, so next player's turn the unit is still in defensive stance so it cannot b used to attack me unless druid uses an action to cancel gaess survive

So now defensive stance will actually have a drawback that celt unit cant attack immediately next turn and wont b that after using all of the actions, player can peacefully use gaess survive again making sure the celt unit keeps being tanky while also attacking and dealing full dmg in the same turn

[makazuwr32]

What if it will give 2 different effects?
Geass survive that helps to survive for 1 turn, and second effect with disadvantages for 2 turns?

[godOfKings]

not being able to deal any damage, itself is a disadvantage, and there are ways to get around this super defense, for example, boosting a melee unit that is counter to the unit with defense buff

[Endru1241]

I

@Endru1241
Right now the situation is such that when gaess survive is used, the celt is difficult to kill but after next turn, the spell disappears so player can now boost the unit with offensive spells, kill as many enemies as possible, then once again use gaess survive making it difficult for me to kill his celts while he can keep attacking me.

My suggestion is make gaess survive last 2 turns instead of current 1, so next player's turn the unit is still in defensive stance so it cannot b used to attack me unless druid uses an action to cancel gaess survive

So now defensive stance will actually have a drawback that celt unit cant attack immediately next turn and wont b that after using all of the actions, player can peacefully use gaess survive again making sure the celt unit keeps being tanky while also attacking and dealing full dmg in the same turn

It could come out good.
Spell would now double as a debuff and make choices harder.
I only wonder if it wouldn't be too powerful as a tool to create meat walls on early-mid game.

[godOfKings]

We can always make a druid on our side to cancel opponent gaess survive so its not like there is no way to get around it

If i know my opponent is using celt strategy but still not use proper counter then i deserve it for losing

Anyway at least with this suggestion, it wont b easy for opponent to burst with strength and speed immediately, i can even choose to ignore the opp with defense buff and attack enemies behind, there r lots of ways to out maneuver units that r stuck with defense buff and unable to attack me


Also its not like making gaess survive last 2 turn will make the situation any worse than it already is, instead it will make it better as units with the defense buff wont b able to attack me for at least 1 turn unless the druid uses cancel gaess and wastes an action

[godOfKings]

Here is an example of a perfect use of celts by a close friend i wont name , who specialises in celt strategy

His druid hidden in the siege tower can use defense buff on chariot and archer after they have used their attack, while i cannot deal effective damage on my turn, on his turn, the def buff will disappear so he can attack again with full damage plus may b atk buff of druid then the archer will hide and chariot will b def buffed again by druid 2nd action (or there could b 2 druids in siege tower and wagon)

My only way out seems to b either use multiple atks to costly kill seemingly weak units or destroy siege tower and get rid of druid or use my own druid to get rid of his def buff, but watevr option i choose is more costly in terms of turns while his chariot and archer seemingly deal full dmg of its turn worth without suffering much in return.

But if my suggestion of def buff lasting 2 turns is implemented then on my opponent next turn his chariot and archer will either stay idle, unable to atk, or he needs to make a choice after canceling gaess either to atk with full dmg without def, atk with base dmg then def, or move buff and escape

Although it doesnt seem much but atleast he will b forced to sacrifice the atk of one of the units with def buff and let it stay idle on his turn (even more units if they r all def buffed but he dont have enough druids to cancel and rebuff them all) basically he will have to pay a strategic cost to gain benefits in other ways

Even if i cannot kill his def buffed unit next turn as well he also wont b able to atk for a whole turn and in large scale game just a single turn can completely change the entire board

[phoenixffyrnig]

Oi! Who's that copying my style? (or to be correct, my old style). I have moved on to other ways of play to avoid being typecast, (too easy to counter if your opp knows what you're going to do before you've even done it) but some old games of mine still feature this style of play. In other words, it's fair to say I know what I'm talking about here, but I don't have any vested interest because it is no longer my signature style.

Couple of points from me
1) when druid was given increase range from 3-5, I initially thought that was rather generous. I still do - possibility of dropping to 4 for some of his abilities (but not for attack since that has lost the ability of being able to move afterwards).
2) druid is an exceptionally powerful buffer when used well. I have previously defended his power on the basis that his buffs are one offs while other buffs are enduring, he's the only buffer who can be cancelled, and he only affects his own kind.
There was however mention of making bard and herbalist also only affect their own kind (a good move imo), avoids the supersoldiers that b2198 has spoken of. If this was to be followed through, then that would change the balance a bit and I would no longer oppose nerfing the Survival Geass.

So while I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your suggestion, there are possibly other things to look at - my first point I think could be applied now, my 2nd point is pending the other buffers also becoming faction specific.

[Endru1241]

How about making it have cooldown along with lasting 2 turns?
This would effectively reduce amount of units made walls by half at once, while making it harder choice and also possible to be used as a nerf (but only 1 druid on one unit each turn).

[godOfKings]

Could b, i m just waiting for complaints from celt strategy users to know their opinion b4 making a finalised decision

[DreJaDe]

Hmmm
Just to suggest here since I saw that celt strat.
What if supportive units can't use their spell inside that moving tower?

Maybe besides heal?

And why not melee too?

Since I think IRL, only archers can really fight using this moving tower.

[Endru1241]

Hmmm
Just to suggest here since I saw that celt strat.
What if supportive units can't use their spell inside that moving tower?

Maybe besides heal?

And why not melee too?

Since I think IRL, only archers can really fight using this moving tower.

Impossible in the engine.
The only way would be to deny them being carried by it to remove all possibility.

[DreJaDe]

Hmmm
Just to suggest here since I saw that celt strat.
What if supportive units can't use their spell inside that moving tower?

Maybe besides heal?

And why not melee too?

Since I think IRL, only archers can really fight using this moving tower.

Impossible in the engine.
The only way would be to deny them being carried by it to remove all possibility.

Thats weird.

I remember not being able to use senator's conversion inside them.

Though that is long ago so maybe im wrong.

[Endru1241]

Back then conversion was not an effect and were given limitations just like construction, because they were different actions.
Now only construction remains impossible to be done from carrier.

[phoenixffyrnig]

I don't feel this is a very good solution I'm afraid. In a couple of old games where I still have a Celtic army it seems to be too much of a nerf for Druid.

If there are no other Celtic units nearby, using this essentially gives him only one action because any other geass applied to the unit will also be removed next turn by mistaken Geass. Or we lose the unit for one turn while we wait (a huge nerf in tbs, especially when we consider how valued double action buffs are). Or we use promote loyalty just for the sake of it when it's not needed. Also the cooldown seems a bit harsh when he already needs to use an action next go to regain use of that unit. And it also seems to me like the lack of counter to a mêlée attack wasn't fully considered in the first place as part of a trade off for using this geass - that's a free hit. Neither was the possibility of an opponent using said geass and blocking your unit for two turns. Taken altogether, too hard a nerf imo.

Possibly have it so that application of a geass overwrites any previous geass (possible complications with this idea)
Or simply reduce effect of Survival geass (but only after other buffers have been made own race only). Honestly, it seems daft to me that so much focus is put on nerfing druid with his small sphere of influence and his one use only spells while we have triple barded, double strike, poisoned weapon, plus blacksmithed super units running amok.