More buildable ships

[phoenixffyrnig]

Would be cool if we had a couple extra buildables to reflect our new found naval power. Are there any balancing reasons why Dromon Scout and Barca Longa are only trainable? If not, would be good to become buildable, useful but not so powerful as to become spammable.

[Endru1241]

I see it the other way around.

Is there any reason why those would be needed to be buildable by workers?
Light ships are counters for boarding mainly. So there is no reason to have them buildable in that regard.

Maybe only as scouts, but then dromon scout should suffice - I can add it to be buildable by ambidexteria worker in 6 turns.
It would loose hp buff though, so will only ever have 20.

If barcha longa/caravel would be buildable by worker, then 4 turn cost would be too good, because it would make it mostly much better option than galley/galleas/frigate for the same cost (8 turn). Changing it to 5 would be needed once again and in such case difference between dock builded war caravel becomes too small.
Especially as I changed things a little and War Caravel can no longer carry misc, except scouts, but units are allowed to shoot from inside.

[b2198]

Is there any reason why those would be needed to be buildable by workers?
Light ships are counters for boarding mainly. So there is no reason to have them buildable in that regard.

Maybe only as scouts, but then dromon scout should suffice - I can add it to be buildable by ambidexteria worker in 6 turns.
It would loose hp buff though, so will only ever have 20.

I also use them as cheap early transport ships apart from scouting, they are faster than dedicated transport ships and can actually aid a light cavalry in early skirmishes, so I can see the usefulness here.

If barcha longa/caravel would be buildable by worker, then 4 turn cost would be too good, because it would make it mostly much better option than galley/galleas/frigate for the same cost (8 turn).

I disagree, the galley line has way more damage, range and is considerably tankier than the barcha longa line, so it would still be a matter of circunstances for choosing between them, since the barcha longa line has the small self-mend that is useful against fire in the absence of a mend ship or such, is a bit faster and can carry a single unit.

Especially as I changed things a little and War Caravel can no longer carry misc, except scouts, but units are allowed to shoot from inside.

:O that will be interesting

[Endru1241]

Is there any reason why those would be needed to be buildable by workers?
Light ships are counters for boarding mainly. So there is no reason to have them buildable in that regard.

Maybe only as scouts, but then dromon scout should suffice - I can add it to be buildable by ambidexteria worker in 6 turns.
It would loose hp buff though, so will only ever have 20.

I also use them as cheap early transport ships apart from scouting, they are faster than dedicated transport ships and can actually aid a light cavalry in early skirmishes, so I can see the usefulness here.

That is actually another reason why it's dangerous.
We have 4 turn transportship and 4 turn barcha longa both equally capable of carrying 1 unit.
So if it's before any need to use wagon/siege tower/ram and hosting 3/2 foot units plus machine or just for cavalry - their capacity is the same.

If barcha longa/caravel would be buildable by worker, then 4 turn cost would be too good, because it would make it mostly much better option than galley/galleas/frigate for the same cost (8 turn).

I disagree, the galley line has way more damage, range and is considerably tankier than the barcha longa line, so it would still be a matter of circunstances for choosing between them, since the barcha longa line has the small self-mend that is useful against fire in the absence of a mend ship or such, is a bit faster and can carry a single unit.

True.
If it's pure damage capability against ground units galley line is better, but barcha longa has greatly superior usability + not so bad attack and still some range.
Although maybe if barcha longa becomes more used galley would increase usage too.

[b2198]

That is actually another reason why it's dangerous.
We have 4 turn transportship and 4 turn barcha longa both equally capable of carrying 1 unit.
So if it's before any need to use wagon/siege tower/ram and hosting 3/2 foot units plus machine or just for cavalry - their capacity is the same.

Hm, yeah, I can see that being a problem, since barcha longas are already the default start of most experienced players I've played with and against in water maps, to explore and capture TCs faster.

True.
If it's pure damage capability against ground units galley line is better, but barcha longa has greatly superior usability + not so bad attack and still some range.
Although maybe if barcha longa becomes more used galley would increase usage too.

I forgot for a moment about their increased damage to boarding ships. Yeah, maybe allowing builders to spam them would cause boarding ships to go extinct again, right after their ressurrection XD

[DreJaDe]

What about as late game tech?
I don't know
Just offering idea

[Endru1241]

What about as late game tech?
I don't know
Just offering idea

Would be great, but as far as I know there is no way to add unit builders.
So it's stuck with those, that are defined at the start.

[makazuwr32]

What about as late game tech?
I don't know
Just offering idea

Would be great, but as far as I know there is no way to add unit builders.
So it's stuck with those, that are defined at the start.

Possible if you will transform unit into other that has unit builders via tech.
But i do not recommend for now such option.

[Endru1241]

What about as late game tech?
I don't know
Just offering idea

Would be great, but as far as I know there is no way to add unit builders.
So it's stuck with those, that are defined at the start.

Possible if you will transform unit into other that has unit builders via tech.
But i do not recommend for now such option.

Yeah - that's full unit json addition for one parameter change, so I try to avoid anything like that.
Besides it would look like upgrade in players eyes.
Might be confusing.