Condottiere Cost Balance

[Aral_Yaren]

They have morale boost aura, can pay a group of mercs for longer stay, can recruit mercs and have good stats and longer leaving (8 turn)... all for a 4 turn unit, eventhough mercenary class. And in mercs rush, they are too much value compared to their cost.

I suggest raising their training turn for such a valueable unit, to be equal to their cost.

Stay awesome!

[b2198]

I agree with this, comparing to crusade leader, which has similar capabilities, and costs 6 turns to make + 4 turns of research to be able to use hire crusader + can only be made in monasteries, I think their cost should be increased at least to 5 turns, if not more.

[DreJaDe]

Compared to a centurion though. It's kinda weak and as mercenary, it would be cheaper so I think 4 is okay.

From my perspective. I think the other leader units are the one that need change like the daimyo.

[b2198]

The problem with comparing to a centurion is that a centurion doesn't spawn other units, which is the main reason I think this increase in cost is necessary. If we were only to look at it stats-wise, yeah, it would be fine at 4 turns, but give it enough carts and it becomes a mercenary factory, that's the problematic part for a 4 turn unit. I think 5 turns would be a better number, since it would still be cheaper than both centurion and crusade leader, but still more costly than a regular knight. Maybe we should have a cheaper cavalry mercenary in TCs for 3 turns, without the skills and aura of condottiero and about as strong as a knight?

[b2198]

Also I don't think daimyo needs a decrease in turn cost, he's a bit stronger than a cavalier, compared to a centurion, which is about as strong as a heavy knight.

[DreJaDe]

Spawning other units costs and would only be profitable if you already have the mines which takes a long time to be online.

And normal unit would be able to contend easily by that given time and even be better if you have your own mines.

A centurion have double buffs and have the basic ability of leader units like the propaganda thing and it's stats being really great. It can also be buffed further by their respective buffer while also gaining some from normal units. It's an ultra-powerful unit, which is only balanced by their ineffective infantry that's easy to counter.

[Aral_Yaren]

It has nothing to do with spawning ability, rather:
1. Morale boost aura,
2. Pay mercenary, which has the most value as I said earlier - in merc rush, they aren't balance,
3. Centurion is not a merc unit,
4. Thus thread is suggesting cost rebalance for Condottiere as merc unit with such cheap turn, nit as cavalry

[makazuwr32]

The only problem i see is with pay mercenary ability on this merc unit.

Probably it would be better to move it to other unit.

Everything else is fine for him.

[Endru1241]

Condotierro pay mercenary ability is the essence of it.
It cannot go anywhere else.

But it was intended to cost money sacrifices.
I'll try if it can be implemented.
It's in the list of implemented code changes, but I don't remember why I didn't change it right away.

[L4cus]

recruitment place could be changed as well...having them so easily recuited in the tc makes them easy to produce, allowing the merc rush...
maybe castle + stables should be the only places to produce them

[b2198]

If they stop getting produced in TCs, maybe we could get stradiots in its place as a cavalry merc in TCs, since stradiots are just stronger versions of the light cavalry?

[DreJaDe]

Ok, that's going to far.

Stradiots on tc is broken.

Also disagree with the the removal of the condottiere in tv as it's a leader unit.