Bring back speed boost for Golden Ram

[phoenixffyrnig]

Fairly self explanatory, in days gone by, tier 3 battering ram had speed increase to 3. I would like to see this back to make the upgrades more worthwhile. (NB - I am talking about rams in battle mode, not transport mode)

Rams need an upward tweak (imo) they have become largely unused and somewhat underpowered, and the upgrades currently give rather limited benefit because...
a) the increase in pierce armour is a moot point - is there any practical difference between 16->18->20?
b) mend bonus does not scale with the tiers, so they become harder to maintain
c) the hp/armour increase from Lv 1->Lv 3 is almost entirely negated by massive bonuses to siege machine armoured, eg the extra 4 armour and 40hp does not even cover one cannon shot or a heavy zweihander/basic maceman hit, plus many et ceteras.
d) even the attack boost is pretty negligible because Lv 1 ram can already destroy normal factories with upgrades, and it is so easily countered before you can close the distance on towers and castles that the increase doesn't really come into play there.
e) a 1 turn Frisian horse can stop them dead in their tracks.

So all in all, I believe some sort of encouragement is needed to make rams more attractive, Lv 3 speed increase would go some way to doing this.

[makazuwr32]

What if infantry melee units inside rams wiuld be able to act inside?

[Hyuhjhih]

What if infantry melee units inside rams wiuld be able to act inside?

No, nah, nope. It would be a huge mistake.

[Badnorth]

Well, i think so too. I don't think the Battering rams should let it's garrisoned units be able to act. It'll just be another Siege tower, but with attack and some flaws.

[Badnorth]

I think rams should have bonuses towards buildings with the Structure category.

Battering Rams deals little to no damage when up against a Frisian Horse. I don't think that's nice at all.

[Endru1241]

I think rams should have bonuses towards buildings with the Structure category.

Battering Rams deals little to no damage when up against a Frisian Horse. I don't think that's nice at all.

I probably forgot about that when changing bonuses/categories once.

Fairly self explanatory, in days gone by, tier 3 battering ram had speed increase to 3. I would like to see this back to make the upgrades more worthwhile. (NB - I am talking about rams in battle mode, not transport mode)

Rams need an upward tweak (imo) they have become largely unused and somewhat underpowered, and the upgrades currently give rather limited benefit because...
a) the increase in pierce armour is a moot point - is there any practical difference between 16->18->20?
b) mend bonus does not scale with the tiers, so they become harder to maintain
c) the hp/armour increase from Lv 1->Lv 3 is almost entirely negated by massive bonuses to siege machine armoured, eg the extra 4 armour and 40hp does not even cover one cannon shot or a heavy zweihander/basic maceman hit, plus many et ceteras.
d) even the attack boost is pretty negligible because Lv 1 ram can already destroy normal factories with upgrades, and it is so easily countered before you can close the distance on towers and castles that the increase doesn't really come into play there.
e) a 1 turn Frisian horse can stop them dead in their tracks.

So all in all, I believe some sort of encouragement is needed to make rams more attractive, Lv 3 speed increase would go some way to doing this.

a) I added it mostly for consistence, but it helps against balista shots
b) transforming helps to easily repair them- which btw. is another problem
c) it's not supposed to bring too much resilience against those units with bonuses, but their damage scaling with upgrades is a problem. I'd very much like to change some bonuses (including most of high bonuses) to be constants added instead of percentage boosts. Unfortunately it's hard to do with current engine.
d) attack boost is mainly for higher damage against walls, gates and towers. It's not negibible against them.
e) look higher

[phoenixffyrnig]

a) Ahh, 100% attack bonus - I didn't see that.
b) do rams have the same issue as siege towers where transforming them means you can't put out the fires of burning damage?
e) yes, good - even watchtowers turn into an effective anti-ram barrier

And re my OP, any chance of a speed boost?

[Endru1241]

This one I'd rather avoid.
Balancing different categories of units when their speed and range goes up is much more difficult.
So it's either balancing the starting point or ending one. And making then too op or up on the other one.

I am actually thinking of doing something almost reverse to giving speed on upgrades - remove range boosts (apart of siege machines and buildings). It's mainly about cheap ranged foot units - they get much better boosts from both upgrades and blacksmith.

[Hyuhjhih]

yes, good - even watchtowers turn into an effective anti-ram barrier

I support this one actually. A line of frisian horse and one or 2 cannon tower behind can make rams utterly useless, esp when it is backed up by couple of labourers. How about boosting ram damage a bit, bonus for structures and +1 power range, with 0% penalty. I hope it wont be much of a problem.

[phoenixffyrnig]

b) transforming helps to easily repair them- which btw. is another problem

Following on from this point Endru, I have noticed that packed siege tower has the same mend bonus, 0, as deployed siege tower.

I like siège towers, but there have been suggestions that they are OP. To counter those suggestions I offer the arguments that
People don't counter them properly
Only one garrisoned unit can survive it's destruction (like wagon)
They make for more attacking game play than tower spam
They are high maintenance (60 construction bonus, 0 mend bonus).

Can you negatively adjust the mend bonus of packed siege towers please to keep them high maintenance because I think that is an important point of balance. As it is, they are too easy to pack, retreat, quick fix and send back.

[godOfKings]

U can put ur own siege tower in front of ur fortress and protect ur fortress while burning enemy atking siege tower, catapults r actually good early game anti siege towers, its basically atking side- cat and siege tower, defing side- fortress and siege tower, there r a few infantry units which spammed in wagons can quickly take down a fortress/ siege tower