Hussar Brothers are Weak

[MaharajaInfernape]

(Winged) Hussar
Winged Hussar is very weak as a unit needing 12 turns of research and that too in different places. It costs 5 turns, yet its HP is even lower than Cavalier, the 12-turns-cost upgrade of Knight. So why will anyone produce Hussars instead of Knight? Winged hussars held long pikes which could hit through pike formations. So it should get bonus against them. I suggest the following changes in stats in order to make it better.

Armours: 1/4 (because guns could not deal much damage to winged hussars)
Bonuses: (Same), +50% on Polearm wielder

Also, the upgrade cost should be increased (e.g.: 10 turns) since they were not used until early 17th century. But then its stats should further be increased to balance.

Regular Hussar is also underpowered I think.

(Late) Hungarian Hussar
Hungarian Hussar is also underpowered. It sacrifices all its stats for speed. It even has 7 power!

Why is Late Hungarian Hussar so underpowered even after 18 turns of research?!

[Badnorth]

I don't think the winged hussar needs a buff. It already looks powerful considering they are the only melee cavalry with a ranged basic attack.

The Winged Hussars are Anti-infantry and siege mounted units, the use of winged hussar is to kill infantry and eliminating siege equipment at a second while at a range of 2. It can be a bother to have them as your enemy if you don't have that many protection i.e Fodder or Walls. I don't think this needs a buff.

The Hungarian Hussar however looks to be a light cavalry focusing on the ability to eliminate healers, workers and siege equipment at a blow. So we can just say that Hungarian Hussar is a much weaker variant of the unit Hussar. Not sure but i think this might need a slight buff.

[Badnorth]

The armor of Cavalry can be upped by using blacksmith techs. It should be good to have it by the time you get winged hussar since it is a late-game unit.

[makazuwr32]

I should ask one question:
Why they are locked behind techs?

I know it is something related to balance but why specifically?

[MaharajaInfernape]

The armor of Cavalry can be upped by using blacksmith techs. It should be good to have it by the time you get winged hussar since it is a late-game unit.

Winged hussars were extremely advantageous against volley fires, which mediaeval knights were not. Therefore they should at least have more Pierce Armour than Cavaliers.

The Hungarian Hussar however looks to be a light cavalry focusing on the ability to eliminate healers, workers and siege equipment at a blow. So we can just say that Hungarian Hussar is a much weaker variant of the unit Hussar. Not sure but i think this might need a slight buff.

If Hungarian Hussar is "a much weaker variant" of Hussar, then why does Hussar have even less armours than it.

[godOfKings]

Late hussar has pistol ability which requires gun powder tech, and winged hussar has 2 range and requires reach tech, i think its acceptable as they also the fastest cav in game plus they actually take lower dmg from halberds than knights bcuz they r medium cav class, not heavy cav, they r vulnerable to more units in exchange for better survivality against pole arm

Also winged hussar has same dmg as cavalier but its ranged 2 just like pikeman, and addition of reach tech already makes it late game so it doesnt need additional increase in tech Cost

Its bcuz of 6 speed that they r slightly weaker than conventional cav, but they make up for it with dmg and ranged atks with bonus against siege, they r actually best siege counters with late hussars having higher range and winged hussars higher dmg

Forgot to add that late hussar is also cheaper and faster than reiter

[MaharajaInfernape]

Late hussar has pistol ability which requires gun powder tech, and winged hussar has 2 range and requires reach tech, i think its acceptable as they also the fastest cav in game plus they actually take lower dmg from halberds than knights bcuz they r medium cav class, not heavy cav, they r vulnerable to more units in exchange for better survivality agaainst pole arm

Thank you very much for so clear answer.
But Hussar (not Winged) is also underpowered with a cost of 5 turns.

[godOfKings]

It can 1 hit kill spearman, has 18 dmg max, btr than knight, also 6 speed, how is it worse? Also if u can keep enough hussars alive early game then wen they have 2 range late game wont they b op? Also reach is very useful tech too, all ur pole arm units will atk first in counters, so even if they get one shotted they will deal dmg first b4 dying, and if their counter dmg kills opp cav then they wont die instead

[godOfKings]

Its like winged hussars r made to counter the reach effect of pole arms and kill them from a distance

U can also make a formation of cavaliers in front with with winged hussars behind and late hussars farther behind (as they have 3 range) and u can almost dominate any open field clash

[MaharajaInfernape]

Its like winged hussars r made to counter the reach effect of pole arms and kill them from a distance

No. I meant to say that since their pikes were as long as or even longer than the pikes of pikemen, they were able to hit pikemen. As cavalry was already superior to infantry, the same effect should also apply on Winged Hussars to Pikemen. Thus I suggested a bonus on Polearm Wielders.

[godOfKings]

Have u checked pikeman hp? Even without bonus, winged hussar still deals 3-4rth of max hp dmg, put an archer behind hussar and they can directly kill pikeman

[MaharajaInfernape]

Have u checked pikeman hp? Even without bonus, winged hussar still deals 3-4rth of max hp dmg, put an archer behind hussar and they can directly kill pikeman

You're right. But this is also right that knights could hardly hit through pike formations; but Winged Hussars did not have such problems, and so they could deal more damage to them. Then the HP of Polearm Wielders can be increased for balance. But I am not sure if it would be balanced still then.

[godOfKings]

Thats y u have reach tech, even if pole arm wielder has very low health, even with 1 hp, it will still atk 1 range knight first, so knight will get full counter dmg if it atks a pole-arm wielder, u will just have to research this tech first to make pole arm wielders the bane of melee cav, so pole arm wielder units dont need higher hp unless u want them as tanky as foot knight and can stand still against arrows...

This way winged hussar already has a big advantage over cavalier against pole arms