Berserker Rebalance RE-OPENED

[TheSenate-_-]

Just make them only available on viking Hall this is such an easy fix I don't know why it's taking the developers so long to place him into viking hall only recruiting.

[Endru1241]

Just make them only available on viking Hall this is such an easy fix I don't know why it's taking the developers so long to place him into viking hall only recruiting.

There are two reasons and both are very simple -
- topic is still under discussion - there was never any solid consensus and there is few ideas flying around here. phoenixffyrnig idea (which I agree with) wasn't commented much here. Forum is just not very active.
- it takes a long time to do anything.

Maybe you don't even realise how many details need some kind of change in regards of place of training.
And when I start the topic - I tend to go to the extremes (e.g. full rebalance).
So before even touching it - I wanted to finish things left in the middle.

And those things take time.
Adding the unit can sometimes take few days if effect is especially hard to be added.
And many times I also do images or corrections on them.
Sometimes I prioritise and don't even touch something for weeks - mainly - afraid I won't be able to make assets playable if too much is lacking some vital element if there is sudden need to publish.

There is only limited time working guy can contribute.


Or maybe I am already not motivated enough?
Not even sure myself.

PS: Complaints like that on anything free, made by community members contribution is quite rude.
I may only politely note about that, but there could be a person hurt, angered or simply dis-motivated by such words.
I remember more than one translation project dropped because of small percentage of community complaining about release times constantly.

[b2198]

I agree with GoK in that they should also be available in barracks, not just nordic hall. That still improves a lot over the current state, since players would only be able to start making the first berserker by the third turn (or second, if many starting units), and would need to waste a factory slot for that, instead of having them available from first turn in potentially multiple TCs at once.

[TheSenate-_-]

Sorry Enduru I forgot it's only like 3 of you making this game. I'm so used to trashing games this dayand age I forgot to take context into the equation and I'm very sorry. I'd offer to help if I knew the first thing about coding. I only got taught how to make websites with adobe dreamweaver and microsoft uuhh the old discontinued Microsoft website creation software from like 2012. I'm not versed in coding. A script kiddie if you would. Pardon my ignorant outburst

[Aral_Yaren]

Well Endru, let me say that you're the best in our community I have seen so far - along with Maka. And if you would wish to have a good time in MP with reliable players in AoS (who understand real life condition and wouldn't skip, so this suit for working men like us who sometime barely have time to open phone), just let me know and I shall arrange it so there you shall meet some passionate AoS players.

(I guess there are some old topics that need to be reopened, I shall check some if my quota allowed).

[makazuwr32]

On aos if i am right actually only endru is working constantly. So it is only 1 person.

Stratego has lots of projects to work on apart from aos specifically — coding new possibilities for all ao games or unity version for example as biggest ones, he also works on aoww since there are currently no dev leader from community — so can't say his input is that big in updating aos.

North is not too active right now (as image maker or balancer).

Coolguy is inactive.

[Endru1241]

On aos if i am right actually only endru is working constantly. So it is only 1 person.

Stratego has lots of projects to work on apart from aos specifically — coding new possibilities for all ao games or unity version for example as biggest ones, he also works on aoww since there are currently no dev leader from community — so can't say his input is that big in updating aos.

North is not too active right now (as image maker or balancer).

Coolguy is inactive.

Yup.
Coolguy moved out of picture.
As noted Stratego mainly does engine changes (and Unity) which is for all variants. He is still overlooking changes and actively manages maps plus bug reports though, which is pretty big. Especially considering how busy he is.
AoS assets is pretty much only me, but I admit - some contributors could have been threw off, because of my slow response and implementation. E.g. GoK even made some jsons, but they were on very wrong time of big recategorisation.
Units with Badnorth images are still waiting in queue in many cases.

Balancing input however is few more names and my view on that part is that it's mainly community effort.
Much appreciated.

Sorry Enduru I forgot it's only like 3 of you making this game. I'm so used to trashing games this dayand age I forgot to take context into the equation and I'm very sorry. I'd offer to help if I knew the first thing about coding. I only got taught how to make websites with adobe dreamweaver and microsoft uuhh the old discontinued Microsoft website creation software from like 2012. I'm not versed in coding. A script kiddie if you would. Pardon my ignorant outburst

No offence taken.
As for help - it's mentioned above - game variant is mostly about assets management. So file management and changing parameters in json. And testing - a lot of testing. If you are interested in going into json edition - help is always welcomed.

Well Endru, let me say that you're the best in our community I have seen so far - along with Maka. And if you would wish to have a good time in MP with reliable players in AoS (who understand real life condition and wouldn't skip, so this suit for working men like us who sometime barely have time to open phone), just let me know and I shall arrange it so there you shall meet some passionate AoS players.

(I guess there are some old topics that need to be reopened, I shall check some if my quota allowed).

Thanks, but I will not take this offer.
I never been much of player in pvp arrangements - I just don't especially enjoy it.

I agree with GoK in that they should also be available in barracks, not just nordic hall. That still improves a lot over the current state, since players would only be able to start making the first berserker by the third turn (or second, if many starting units), and would need to waste a factory slot for that, instead of having them available from first turn in potentially multiple TCs at once.

It's already like that in my assets.
But once touched - there is few more changes needed in tc roster. I'll write details in dedicated topic.

[godOfKings]

Thanks to recent buffer changes, berserkers r once again op, especially defensive berserkers with a bard hiding inside a tc can alone mow down too many attacker units next turn

I propose firstly that armor boost should b more reduced, make it same as wolf warrior about +3/+3 armor, since now berserkers r very precious as nordic hall only unit, having lower survivality will make it more precious and not arrogantly sent forward without fear, besides thanks to bard speed boost and wagon, berserkers dont really face any drawback for being 'too slow' to reach enemies

[DreJaDe]

I kinda agree with the balance (not that much tbh, I think it's ok but not sure) but not the reason itself.

I mean, it's a berserker. It has to be sent stupidly on the frontline and wreck havoc.

[godOfKings]

It does wreak havoc, but my berserker has 10/8 armor after full blacksmith buff then what's the point of huskarl or any heavy armored infantry?

The main difference between berserker and gaelic warrior as i see fit for each culture:

Berserker has higher dmg and double action buff
Gaelic warrior has higher health, almost same dmg with gaess atk bonus but total dmg output is half of berserker so i prefer he has better armor from gaess survive so that way the two will have some differences

[DreJaDe]

I kind of agree since even I have a hard time trying to make praetorian enter my roman line. Constant experiment and such and lose a lot because of it. Though on that note, even my 2turn hastati can't enter the game properly.

Actually, I now gain an idea for them.

[godOfKings]

Basically late game berserker can reach 13/9 armor with morale buff, and 21 dmg with 2 action... I didnt even realise its that op....

[Endru1241]

Foot knight costing the same has 10/8 with 19 attack, the same 4 speed and can actually be healed.
Practically for full health.
Gallowglass would have buffed 21 attack too, along with aoe, 5 speed and healable 12/15 defence in emergency.

Berserker is better, but differences are not big, keeping in mind berserk has to be used in correct time.

Nerfing to +3/+3 armor is definitely too much.

If I were to touch it - I'd rather do something to put more emphasis on current usage.
E.g . -1hp/turn poison applied along with berserk for 25 turns, that would be removed on use of berserk.
Forces faster usage of berserk and decreases hp a little.

[DreJaDe]

What if removing one ability that can be used to it while in berserk state? Idk

[Endru1241]

What if removing one ability that can be used to it while in berserk state? Idk

Good idea, but unfortunately impossible in the current engine.
There are only 2 ways to limit abilities being used:
- categories
- resistance (with 4 additional variations resisted by hp, power, melee dodge, ranged dodge)

Categories are not dynamic, so berserk state cannot change them.
Resistance or any of it's variants would mess casting on other units.

But we could make some exclusion in hero song to be impossible to be casted on berserker.

[Endru1241]

Removed bonuses vs cavalry.
Armors lowered to 2/1-> 0/0, attack lowered 7->5.
Added tech costing 5 to increase stats back.

[godOfKings]

Wat about bonus vs elephant?

[Endru1241]

Wat about bonus vs elephant?

I left it for now.

But it is very high - should it be decreased to +75-100% ?