Transport Reforms

[TntAttack]

I would like to address the transports of AoWw.

1. Decrease Transport Unit Capacity
- From 3 to 2.
- Should cost 2 as well.

Reason. Doesn't make sense logically, if 1 unit is a small squad of soldiers, then having 3 squads in a truck is a miracle.

2. Jeeps
- Should carry one infantry

Reason. That's the purpose of a jeep. To transport soldiers.

Potential changes if idea is implemented.
- Patton and Rommel are infantry units that the player can put in Jeeps similar to their current state right now.

3. New units types: Transport Gliders
Military Transport planes that can transport units into battlefield.

- Can transport units from airport to airport
- Can transport unit on clear terrain e.g. grass before disappearing like current paratrooper plane.

Examples:
Values below are obtained from wiki. Only France doesn't have any.

Japan
Maeda Ku-1 (8 troop cap, light)
Kokusai Ku-7 (32 troop cap, light tank, heavy)
Kokusai Ku-8 (20 troop or howitzer with crew)

British
General Aircraft GAL.48 Hotspur (8 troop cap, light)
Slingsby Hengist (14 troop cap, light)
Airspeed Horsa (30 troop cap or jeep or 6-pound anti tank)
Hamilcar Mark I (unknown troo9 cap, transport, anti tank and light tank, heavy)

German
DFS 230 (9 troop cap, light)
Junkers Ju 322 (140 troop cap, heavy)
Messerschmitt Me 321 Gigant (idk if wiki is wrong but 200 troop cap, heavy)

Soviet
Kolesnikov-Tsibin KC-20 (24 troop cap)
Antonov A-7 (8 troop cap, light)

Italy
Aeronautica Lombarda AL-12P (12, light)
C.A.T. TM-2 glider (20 troop cap, light)

US
Waco CG-3 (7 troop cap, light)
Waco CG-4 (13 troop cap, light)
Laister-Kauffman CG-10 (42 troops or two 105mm M2 howitzers or one M1 155 mm Long Tom howitzer or one M2 howitzer, heavy)
Bristol XLRQ (12 troop cap, amphibious, light)

If others and dev likes the idea, I could maybe try helping with unit stats. Ideally these units should be locked under a aviation transport tech.

[TntAttack]

Some of these military Gliders are disposable, the heavier ones probably not.

4. Paratroopers

Transport aircraft doesn't disappear after paratrooper drops. - Paratroopers are locked behind paratroop training tech
- Paratrooper trainable from airports. Costs 3.
- If possible, change paratrooper to deploy one tile away from the plane's position, and if it's random, all the better.
- If possible allow paratrooper to spawn and take single tile towns surrounded by water. (As with water there is no landing spot, with no landing spot, no capture. Perhaps an ability here that can take empty towns straight from the transport plane would work.)
- Allow transport planes to hold 2-3 paratrooper.

[DreJaDe]

1. Truck units doesn't necessary account for only 1 truck just like an infantry unit doesn't necessarily account for only 3 individual.

While I do understand your point... This could lead to a lot of circumstances also. In all honesty, I want more for the rearrangement of the costs of some armored troop carrier more than this for now.

2. With this, Jeeps should now be unable to take tc. I think youve got this from AOMW and I dont really think of this as good cause now you have a supposed troop carrier that is more costly than trucks in your suggestion.

On the other hand, this already exist in the form of uni carrier for the british so not really that absurd tbh but should only be able to carry infantry.

3. Totally doable though needs A LOT of things.

4. Paratroopers actually do need special landing spots many times. I think the part where they couldnt land easily on 1 tile island make sense.

I definitely agree though that paratrooper ability should have a range for its drop of soldiers.

[TntAttack]

2. With this, Jeeps should now be unable to take tc. I think youve got this from AOMW and I dont really think of this as good cause now you have a supposed troop carrier that is more costly than trucks in your suggestion.

On the other hand, this already exist in the form of uni carrier for the british so not really that absurd tbh but should only be able to carry infantry.

I admit I got inspiration from AoM. Perhaps we could do this.
- Jeep cost 2 turns
- Transport vehicle cost 2 turns
- Half track cost 3 turns

-Jeep has 5 speed, 6 sight and weak attack. 1 cap
- transport Truck has 4 speed, 3 sight and no attack.2 cap
- Half Track has 4 speed, 3 sight and 1 cap.

Transport and Half track sight is debatable.

Idea is by reducing truck vehicle speed, game balances out with the average speed of other units. Also since transports are cheaper it doesnt hurt as much to lost them.

About the universal carrier...

According to wiki, "Although the theory and policy was that the carrier was a "fire power transport" and the crew would dismount to fight, practice differed. It could carry machine guns, anti-tank rifles, mortars, infantrymen, supplies, artillery and observation equipment"

So it should be able to transport light artillery and aa... Like it use to be able to. That would be the differentiation.

[DreJaDe]

I really dont like that truck nerf. Thats really a lot.

Also, most trucks have a lot of speed. Like 60kph and like most having 400km operational range.

Trucks though obviously cost more than a jeep while trucks indeed have a lot of power and can even carey like "literal tons" of materials.

Jeeps on the other hand have like 60-100kph speed.

I think suggestion is backwards on nerfing and instead should just make jeeps faster.

[TntAttack]

... I was initially against your idea, but the specs do back you up.

I honestly am not too sure. How about explaining your perspective why you this might be ideal.

Let's wrap up our discussion and finalise it so that we have a idea to present.

I am okay with increasing jeep speed, but I feel like I am not able to properly assess how it would play out.

[DreJaDe]

... I was initially against your idea, but the specs do back you up.

I honestly am not too sure. How about explaining your perspective why you this might be ideal.

Let's wrap up our discussion and finalise it so that we have a idea to present.

I am okay with increasing jeep speed, but I feel like I am not able to properly assess how it would play out.

Most other AO have 6 speed scout so bot much impact.
Though as infantry carrier is another...

One suggestion is to just add another unit that could be take the role of current jeep, like a recon car like the Daimler dingo of the british.

For trucks, I still disagree on two turns. Germany have a problem with truck production, most their troops and even artillery are carried by horses, and I don't want them nor even the allies have this much advantage.

(In all honesty, I want some summoned unit tech. Trucks for US. Colonial inf for brit, extra inf for soviets etc)

[TntAttack]

I think for the sake of generalisation we would have to ignore the terrible industry of the axis factions I.e using primarily horses as transports.

I think portraying Jeeps in game as an unit carrier makes much more sense.

Therefore their role of scouting shouldn't be their primary focus. Rather if we wanted a recon jeep unit, we would have to put a scout in a jeep to achieve what we currently have...

- Jeeps shouldn't have more than 6 speed. 5 is decent, as they should be faster on roads. But I am willing to comprise.
- Jeeps should be a transport unit. Emphasis on trucks is too high.
- Trucks have to be nerf a bit somehow. 2 cap fits well with its cheaper cost 2 turn cost. But if you are adamant I can propose
A. Trucks cost 3 turns in industry 1, and become cheaper in industry 2.
B. Tech research truck mobilisation that cheapens the cost of the trucks from 3 to 2.
C. Truck upgrade variant for all factions. Upgraded unit variant becomes cheaper.

Additionally, what about the ideal of making scouts cost 1?
....
As I was thinking this through, an ambitious idea came to me.

Roads is what is lacking in this game. I propose the Supply truck changes
- Costs 5
- Has two actions, can mend/build on constructions.
- Mend/build values greater than engineer.
- Enough to 1 tap building roads after a riflemen places the construction fown.
- Cap 1
- Replaces large supply truck.
- Same speed as lst.
Supply Jeep
- Costs 3
- Has one action, can mend/build on constructions
- Nearly enough to one tap road constructions.
- No cap
- replaces small supple truck
- Same speed as sst.

Not sure if they should retain their production speedup ability, but we could make it an ability that opens or changes the state of the supple truck to "sacrifice" itself.

The intention is promote the construction of roads. This in turn allows normal Jeeps and trucks to move faster then their base speed at the same time remain.

Since infantry transport Jeeps running at 6 speed is a bit too much, then the counterbalance can be only on roads.

If you agree to change truck transports speed to 4, then the roads bonus would bump it up to 5 as it is currently.

What do you think?

[SS-Jericho]

sorry to interrupt, but may i throw an idea?

What about adding medium/heavy transport?

-Heavy artillery and AA in real life are not transported by regular transports like shown in game. The 4 turns artillery in game are used a lot as well as heavy AA, but it is weird that they are easily transported with other infantry squads in a single truck.

- They should have their own transport, some that i know are:

Germans - Sd.kfz. 11 and Sd.kfz. 7
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd.Kfz._7
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd.Kfz._11

Russia - Voroshilovets
https://weaponsystems.net/system/387-Vo ... e%20winter.

US - M4 and M5 tractors
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Tractor

- These transport may costs 3 turns (?) and can carry heavy AA and artillery Maybe 2 capacity (?) They are slower but has more hp and armor.

Pros: will compliment tnt suggestion of transport. Players will have to use variety of transport depending on their needs and playstyle.

Cons: will complicate the game and affect current meta. Heavy artillery is harder to transport. Many AA (medium and heavy) will be harder to use, especially that current light AA and mobile AA has a bad stats.

[DreJaDe]

sorry to interrupt, but may i throw an idea?

Your kinda late on this but maybe this could be used...

Artillery in the future will now have a transformation for mobile version.

Although... They do use "normal" military trucks to transfer artillery.

[TntAttack]

Summary of this thread.

1. Base concept

- Jeeps cost 2, has capacity one, infantry and light equipment carrier. Sight is 6, speed 6.
- Transports cost 2, slower than jeep, 2 carrier capacity and hold everything. Speed 5, sight 5.
- Half tracks cost 3, 2 capacity 2 and holds everything. Speed 4, sight 4.

(Half tracks holding two because as implied before in other threads, each individual unit isn't one unit, but a squad (or something of the likes))

Pro: Simple to implement.
Cons: Scouts are now useless.

Either we nerf jeep sight or reduce scout cost to 1.
- Scouts cost 1.

2. The supply truck Expansion

Base off the idea that trucks will be carry cargo used for construction of builds, thus why not have a mobile engineer-like unit that can drive around building mega-buildings.

Idea too complicated for this game. I personally scrap it.

3. Medium/heavy Truck Transport Expansion

SS-Jericho suggested we add medium or heavy transport trucks in game.

Following on the Base concept,
- Jeep costs 2, can carry infantry or light equipment. (1 cap)
- Light transports will cost 2 (our current transports) and can only carry light equipment and infantry. (2 capacity)
- Medium transports will cost 3 and can carry heavy equipment and infantry. (2 capacity)
- Half track costs 3 as well, and can only carry light equipment and infantry. (2 capacity)

Pros: Makes sense
Cons: A bit of work, but not impossible. The only problem is whether Italy, Japan, France has medium transport...

4. Alternatively

Equipment (artillery and antitank) spawns with an ability to turn into a truck and move faster. Much like AoS's siege machines.

Pros: Really Simple
Cons: Lacklustre

5. Military Transport Gliders Expansion

New air transports for every nation except France.
France can use British ones if desperate.

- Some light Gliders are single use (as retrieval was too complicated or if the economy could afford it e.g. USA)

- All details needed are in the first post.
Pros:
- Makes "commando operations" more possible during the pre helicopter era.
- Better unit mobility for players.
Cons: Balancing work.

6. Paratrooper Change

- Paradrop has 1 range now
- Transport Plane doesn't disappear.
- Paratrooper trainable in airports.
- Paratrooper plane has 2 capacity for paratrooper. Ordinary soldiers can't drop, but are able to enter and leave if the Paratrooper plane is inside an airport.


Am going to ask @Stratego (dev) to see what he thinks.

Dev, what do you this of these ideas? Any feasible and to your liking.