POLL: What enemy units planes should be able to pass (fly over) without being blocked

[Stratego (dev)]

There are some ideas about what enemy units planes should be able to pass (fly over) without being blocked

so here is a poll for it, but please post your opiotion also with text too - so not only vote.

options for now(you can suggest new):

OPTION 1:
Mostly all is passable except fighter like planes:
- Fighters/fighterbombers can NOT be passed by non-fighters (bomber, parachute, transportplane and so on)
- Fighters/fighterbombers CAN be passed by fighters, fighterbomber
- AA units and artillery can be passed by all planes.

OPTION 2:
Anti Air is also blocking planes and all planes block other planes:
- A plane (any) can NOT pass other planes (any)
- AA units and AA artillery can NOT be passed by any planes.
everything else is passable.

OPTION 3:
Current way - only bridges, walls are passable by (any) planes

[Shark guy 35]

I think the first option is the most accurate. AA guns are ground units, so planes should be able to pass them.

[Stratego (dev)]

I think the first option is the most accurate. AA guns are ground units, so planes should be able to pass them.

my thought was that AA guns would not let any plane to pass within their vincinity, moreover:
version a) either the total AA gun range is impassable (i mean you can not flying tru the range to stop outside range) and only you can "stop" inside range (so AA gun will have possibility to shoot) - i think a fast plane should not pass tru without being shotted by ground AA units - what do u think?
version b) we should make AA guns AUTOMATICALLY to shoot all planes passing tru their range (so AA automatically shoots your plane when you reach its range - in your turn!) - what do u think?

both need coding though

so to approach the above (not yet configurable) setups, at least i thought they at least should be impassable.

ideas?

[Badnorth]

That sounds nice. For the AA versions i'd prefer option B.

[Jasondunkel]

okay where are we coming from. at the moment the problem is that the planes are prevented from flying over them by almost all things and units. they are blocked.

that can't be. neither the planes in ww1 nor ww2 nor in modern times have planes suddenly stopped in front of an air defence position and waited for it to fire. they have always been passed.
the idea that the air defence automatically shoots at aircraft when they fly over the air defence is good and also fits into many combat stories. but what should be there for this automatic should be the radius not as large as the original range of the AA. in addition, the penetration of the automatic fire should also not be as high as the normal attack force. because often the flak were surprised when they were simply crossed because the bomber squadrons approached other targets but often passed by flag batteries.

besides, if we give the same range to the aa for automatic firing. then the aa would suddenly be overpowered because the aa can be fired at up to four times in a bad case for aircraft. this would mean that germany would simply have won the air war against the allies on the ground and would have had to develop the me262 out of sheer misery.

[Stratego (dev)]

that can't be. neither the planes in ww1 nor ww2 nor in modern times have planes suddenly stopped in front of an air defence position

dont forget we should not follow ONLY real life rules - our main goal is the "strategic" b alance in game - if needed getting rid of real life rules.
we must not make units that can jump into enemy base unstoppable.

so we need to think not only in real life mechanics.

[Jasondunkel]

that can't be. neither the planes in ww1 nor ww2 nor in modern times have planes suddenly stopped in front of an air defence position

dont forget we should not follow ONLY real life rules - our main goal is the "strategic" b alance in game - if needed getting rid of real life rules.
we must not make units that can jump into enemy base unstoppable.

so we need to think not only in real life mechanics.

the planes that could simply fly into another base would then be fighter planes and fighter bombers. fighter bombers do not have much attack power any more and one could still lower the bombing capability against buildings a little, but from my point of view this is not necessary. and fighter planes actually have no effect against buildings.

if the aa def can also shoot itself when crossing, e.g. with 20% of the actual power in a radius of 2, the planes would not simply enter.

[Stratego (dev)]

bombers will fly into base also...

only a line of fighters would stop them but that is insane having 8 fighters to stop a single bomber bombing something...

actually "strategically" we need some "wall" thing that stops any planes fly tru everything - and i do not mean 5-6 turn cost fighters per tile.

(like we have walls for ground units)

and these should be the AA defense units (also they still not enought having only 1 tile blocking, but still at least something...)

[godOfKings]

In civilisation, the main limitation for planes were not anti air walls, rather they could only stay in their base, and atk any target close to their base, cities and airports were stationary base and plane could move from 1 base to another, aircraft careers were moving base and helped planes reach farther behind enemy lines, we have all the resources to utilise this style but only limitation in the engine, i think this could also b an option to choose if air crafts will follow the same mechanic as civilisation

[godOfKings]

I got an idea for a leaving like spell, wen leaving is over, plane will teleport back to the last place it was garrisoned, and before leaving is over, it will stay in the battlefield where it will b possible to atk plane with aa and fighter units b4 it teleports back next turn, may b plane can have base 0 speed, and the garrisoning unit will apply the leaving (or may b refueling) spell on plane that gives it movement for a few turns after which it returns back to base, may b the building using the spell could also act as a marker for plane to teleport back to, but ofc this will require coding

[Stratego (dev)]

we need to use current mechanics.

so we need to be as close to the "good" strategic feeling with current possibilities.

that is why i suggested having AA units impassable so i can make 1-2 anti air turret and a few (few turns) AA units to prevent planes dropping behind an important factory base (naturally with fighters too.)


(actually we can keep current version that almost everything blocks planes - but that is a little weird that is why i suggested AA units from ground and all planes to block from sky)

[Jasondunkel]

your logic does not fit
if according to your example you need 8 fighters to stop a bomber you would also need 8 aa to stop a bomber. and a flying wall would be more realistic than a "wall on the ground". Besides, we would be back to the spam of fixed aa or fixed artillery. which we have already contained somewhat.

in addition, i don't see the strategic element of a wall in the air.

the strategic element would be the automatic shooting of the aa.

as i said, the automatic firing should be limited to two tiles and not with full power.

[Stratego (dev)]

there is no autmatic shooting, that is not an option now.

and my "logic" fits or not is point of view:
- ground AA units are cheaper
- and having different roles too than only be "walls" (eg. concrete one is also a bunker and maybe anti infantry not sure),
- and they could be a "walling" unit as a secondary possibility against planes

[Jasondunkel]

I know that automatic shooting is not yet possible. you said yourself that it has to be coded. and that should be the fastest possible aim.

Besides, the poll is currently on option 1, where your ground wall for the air does not exist.

but that's music for now. first fix the problem that planes are currently blocked by all ground units.

[Stratego (dev)]

i plan to make AA units blocking too as not everyone against it, but i wait for textual comments from others too and opinions.

[Jasondunkel]

it is a pity that so few people comment here. even from the people who have voted for something here.