version 1.175

[Stratego (dev)]

version 1.174 is published

[makazuwr32]

Please update dev version.

[makazuwr32]

@Stratego (dev)
Please move next units to map editor ones:
Warfell content to erase (i am fine to make them as map editor units):
1. 4 new ships — warfell transport ship, warfell valor, warfell fortitudo, warfell solidarity;
2. Warfell hopper;
3. Warfell saber agent;
4. Warfell arcane air balloon;
5. Warfell Plaustra Ferrea.

Non-warfell content to move to map editor only:
1. Adventure ranger — both forms + dog summon
2. Templar archer
3. Hospitalier archer
4. Pegasus archers
5. Imperial gryphon archer

Warfell techs to be erased (actual removal from the game — we will not let them to be kept):
Warfell techs for: melee attack, ranged attack, armor, shield, national health (both tiers).

These all are gone too overboard in opness (blame brave who made them and myself who missed them before release).

Please move them to map editor and release new gplay version.

[Marine25]

Maybe its great to make them available in TC and their respetive buildings. It is very cool to see them in game

[Stratego (dev)]

@Stratego (dev)
Please move next units to map editor ones:
Warfell content to erase (i am fine to make them as map editor units):
1. 4 new ships — warfell transport ship, warfell valor, warfell fortitudo, warfell solidarity;
2. Warfell hopper;
3. Warfell saber agent;
4. Warfell arcane air balloon;
5. Warfell Plaustra Ferrea.

Non-warfell content to move to map editor only:
1. Adventure ranger — both forms + dog summon
2. Templar archer
3. Hospitalier archer
4. Pegasus archers
5. Imperial gryphon archer

Warfell techs to be erased (actual removal from the game — we will not let them to be kept):
Warfell techs for: melee attack, ranged attack, armor, shield, national health (both tiers).

These all are gone too overboard in opness (blame brave who made them and myself who missed them before release).

Please move them to map editor and release new gplay version.

oh are these game breaking things?

sorry, we can not move ANY unit to mapeditor unit once they are published.
we can change their stats though.

any suggestions to change them instead? also General knows about these maybe he is already changing them?

[makazuwr32]

Generic reasons:
1. They are unintended.
2. Unless they will have stats like 1 hp and 1 speed i will not even allow for them to exist in any form (for most of them at very least).
3. They are not fitting the style. Why did brave add kangaroo like hoppers for humans? If we add them than it will be alright i suppose to add alive elephants and olog hais for base undeads and necromancers for dwarves, right??????

Specific units:
4. Warfell part (non-ship) specifically — warfell already became too big and since we will add few more i need to get a space for them. Thus either those units above (which are not really required for warfell anyway and will not make it any better) or really required units for warfell — 5 new mages + 1 crystal dragon. Not both.
5. Ships of warfell — they have different problem since they have no actual personality aside from visuals and name. No uniqueness and i do not want to give them any — warfell has enough already.
6. Templar and hospitalier archers will eradicate undeads with such insane speed that it will not be even funny. And i do not like even idea of templar/hospitalier archers (what next? Templar/hospitalier mages, priests, pegasus riding ones, imperial and warfell ones? Hell no. They do not fit style wise and they will only make implementation of holy sub far more hard to be useful).
7. Adventurer — he just steals the place of scarn while being better at everything. Just no. Also again has too good stast and does not fit into planned sub — there will be no "generic adventurers".

Only what we might need to reuse is warfell techs since we found few issues with warfell balance when compared to basic humans.

(side note: they are not presented in gem shop anyway)

[Stratego (dev)]

ok, but if any of those are in shoplist we can not remove - we can only change them...

[makazuwr32]

Imperial archer will get later proper stats so that one is fine to keep.

But rest of must be moved to map editor only units.

[Stratego (dev)]

as i wrote we can not if they are shopitems. are those shopitems? (in upgrades section)

[makazuwr32]

Warfell national health tech
and
warfell saber agent are in shop list.
But we have 2 units with mostly proper stats thus better to replace with those 2 in shop:
Warfell Ferrum Gerentis
Warfell Colossus

(So replace "Warfell National health tech" with "Warfell Ferrum Gerentis" and "Warfell Saber Agent" with "Warfell Colossus" in shop list.)

Rest of list are not:
Warfell transportship
Warfell Valor
Warfell Fortitudo
Warfell Solidarity
Hopper knight
Warfell hopper knight
Templar archer
Hospitalier archer
Adventure Ranger Melee
Adventure Ranger Range (such a bad name choice... )
Pegasus archer (i will later make a proper stats for him but firstly i will fix rest of warfell)
Imperial gryphon archer (i will later make a proper stats for him but firstly i will fix rest of warfell)
Warfell Arcane Air Balloon
Warfell Plaustra Ferrea

And techs:
Weapons melee warfell
Weapons ranged warfell
Armor warfell
Shields warfell
Warfell National health 1

And must be removed from trainable units list to map editor only.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok!

i will make it soon and will update dev verrsion! thanks!

[makazuwr32]

Awesome.

Once i will double check those we may release this version in gplay as fix.

Warfell techs mentioned here alas might be reused later for further balancing of warfell (once i will work on it on next week) so do not remove them completely from the game.

[makazuwr32]

Any progress?

[Stratego (dev)]

replace "Warfell National health tech" with "Warfell Ferrum Gerentis" and "Warfell Saber Agent" with "Warfell Colossus" in shop list

this is ready

Hopper knight
Warfell hopper knight

hoppers are weird, i have removed them (4 unit types total)

Templar and hospitalier archers will eradicate undeads with such insane speed that it will not be even funny. And i do not like even idea of templar/hospitalier archers (what next? Templar/hospitalier mages, priests, pegasus riding ones, imperial and warfell ones? Hell no. They do not fit style wise and they will only make implementation of holy sub far more hard to be useful)

Templar and hospitalier archers gone mapeditor only

Adventurer — he just steals the place of scarn while being better at everything. Just no. Also again has too good stast and does not fit into planned sub — there will be no "generic adventurers".

ok they are mapeditor units now

And techs:
Weapons melee warfell
Weapons ranged warfell
Armor warfell
Shields warfell
Warfell National health 1

these are no longer buildable.

[Stratego (dev)]

Ships of warfell — they have different problem since they have no actual personality aside from visuals and name. No uniqueness and i do not want to give them any — warfell has enough already.

is think this is no problem "having no personality" - later these can be tuned, if they are not op i would keep them, they are nice in appearance and give some variation.
(i wonder why arent they shopitems...)

[Stratego (dev)]

warfell already became too big and since we will add few more i need to get a space for them

i am a little confiused, so not all these units are op? you want me to remove so we will have "fewer" warfell unit types? i woould suggest keeping all that is not op, there is no problem we have unit variations.

i need to get a space for them

btw: what space u mean?


so - can you list me ONLY the "op" ones to "remove" - but better if you can tell me how to change not to be op : eg "increase cost up to 8" or something like that.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok i reached this far now.
i hope these are enought to be removed.

tell me if any need any stat modifications (eg. warfell ships)

uos 10

[Anchar]

I would like the hopper knight to stay, he doesn't look strong and is very funny in my opinion.

[makazuwr32]

I would like the hopper knight to stay, he doesn't look strong and is very funny in my opinion.

Except jumping cavalry must be exclusive to orcs.
Or do you want to add ettin-based giants with aoe 1-3 and range 2-3 for every race as well?

[Stratego (dev)]

ok i reached this far now.
i hope these are enought to be removed.

tell me if any need any stat modifications (eg. warfell ships)

uos 10

any idea what else i need to tune on the remained new warfell units?
if not than i will publish this version quickly.
(meanwhile i fixed the human advancements center - was not set to hide units)

[Anchar]

I would like the hopper knight to stay, he doesn't look strong and is very funny in my opinion.

Except jumping cavalry must be exclusive to orcs.
Or do you want to add ettin-based giants with aoe 1-3 and range 2-3 for every race as well?

I already wrote in the discord that I do not understand why the jumping cavalry should be unique to the orcs, given that I see only one useless cavalry unit in them.

By the same analogy, you can threaten to remove the priests from the dwarves because it is a unique unit of a human, or take away dragons and drakes from everyone except lizards, since this is their unique unit and human cannot tame them. You yourself wrote that Humans can have versatility in the form of tamed animals, why don't they tame a jumping dinosaur like a drake?

[Stratego (dev)]

Ne wversion uos already.

changes
- i have updated > 2000 unit files to set proper to_zomie transformation (after being infected)
- i have set several warfell changes (removed units to mapeditor, and updated existing unit stats)

please check and tell me if i need to tune something else.

thanks!

[DreJaDe]

To be honest though... That analogy is indeed bad...

[Stratego (dev)]

please be more specific - i have no idea what u mean.

[makazuwr32]

He means Anchar example.

[Stratego (dev)]

new update uos already:
change:
- unit transfomrs will only work if palyers also fit: so you can not have a zombie stolen from enemy inside the enemy TC.

uos already

[Anchar]

To be honest though... That analogy is indeed bad...

If the example is unsuccessful, then give me examples in which universes do dwarves have priests and what kind of faith? Dwarves are always more like atheists as they are closer to science and technology.Yes, they have magic, but only as a science. Their only version of the faith is the Viking version of the faith, which does not have white-robed priests with healing.

If it’s a human being about dragons and drakes, then it’s possible, from the point of view of common lores, that it’s really unsuccessful. However, against the backdrop of a whole race of dragons and lizards, this looks strange.

[DreJaDe]

If the example is unsuccessful, then give me examples in which universes do dwarves have priests and what kind of faith?

I meant @makazuwr32 's analogy. Trying to use the ettins which doesnt even make sense as an analogy.

Though to answer your question, there are a lot in the japanese side. Many using the earth (land)gods, god of smithing and mountain gods.

[makazuwr32]

To be honest though... That analogy is indeed bad...

If the example is unsuccessful, then give me examples in which universes do dwarves have priests and what kind of faith? Dwarves are always more like atheists as they are closer to science and technology.Yes, they have magic, but only as a science. Their only version of the faith is the Viking version of the faith, which does not have white-robed priests with healing.

If it’s a human being about dragons and drakes, then it’s possible, from the point of view of common lores, that it’s really unsuccessful. However, against the backdrop of a whole race of dragons and lizards, this looks strange.

Who said that dwarves have viking version of faith?
Viking version of faith will fit more for orcs due to being very savage and barbarian.

As for dwarves — they might have a faith based on mix of Christian religion and taoism (for example).

Another example of universe is "Heroes of Might and Magic 5".
That world has multiple dragon gods and dwarves as exceptional blacksmiths have faith in dragon god of fire. With white robed rune patriarchs as well.

As for dragons — IF scalefolks had 1-2 dragons in plans than it actually was a possibility. But since scalefolks will have a bit more than 2 dragons (for now around 10 at base and more in subs) it is not crucial to remove dragons from other races. Especially since dragons also have big differences.
(Also removal of all dragons analogy is not right example since for orcs i want unique type of unit — jumping cavalry — while in case of dragons and scalefolks it is a whole race and removal of dragons would be more correct to compare with for example removal of all archers from all non-elven races or all ships from non-human races as class or all summons from non-undead races.)

As for taming of humans — dinosaur-like drake is a completely different being from "animals" and is predator for humans. Humans tame as mounts in most cases either herbivores (horses, elephants for example), intelligent animals (gryphons, drakes and imperial dragons) or elemental beings (upcoming leviathan). Not man-eating dinosaurs.

[Anchar]

If the example is unsuccessful, then give me examples in which universes do dwarves have priests and what kind of faith?

I meant @makazuwr32 's analogy. Trying to use the ettins which doesnt even make sense as an analogy.

Though to answer your question, there are a lot in the japanese side. Many using the earth (land)gods, god of smithing and mountain gods.

You just didn't specify what your comment was about. Yes, maybe in anime or Japanese MMORPGs, but I have a personal feeling that anything can happen there just for the sake of epic.It is also worth noting that everything that you have listed is a religion of various elements and, rather, can even be applied and interpreted as elemental magic or reminiscent of paganism. The question is what god does a dwarf priest believe in and how does he heal? Does he believe in the wind god and heals with fresh air? In the god of water and remotely does not let the blood flow out of their wounds? If so, why is he wearing a white coat and not a blue one? Most likely he believes in the god of light and makes X-rays with the help of rays, but how should this be cured?