Reform: Anti infantry grenade change suggestion

[DreJaDe]

Infantry changes

Bomb Changes to Rifleman and other units who already have some of the mentioned anti infantry grenade.

US rifleman
M2 grenade
2CD
Consumes action
7 damage
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

British Rifleman
Mills bomb
8 damage
3CD
Consumes action and movement possible
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

French Rifleman
F2 Grenade
2CD
5 damage
Consumes action
+%300 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%200 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

German Rifleman
2CD
5 damage
Doesn't consume action
Stuns the enemy for 1 turn
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

Japanese Rifleman
Type 97 grenade
1 CD
5 damage
Consumes action
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

Italian rifleman
SRCM Mod. 35
2CD
5 damage
Doesn't consume action
+%300 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%200 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

USSR rifleman
RGD-33 grenade
3 CD
Consumes action
8 damage
+%200 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%200 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

[DreJaDe]

What do you think of this
@TntAttack
@Jasondunkel
@Stratego (dev)

[TntAttack]

Infantry changes







German Rifleman
2CD
5 damage
Doesn't consume action
Stuns the enemy for 1 turn
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

Japanese Rifleman
Type 97 grenade
1 CD
5 damage
Consumes action
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

Italian rifleman
SRCM Mod. 35
2CD
5 damage
Doesn't consume action
+%300 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%200 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

Not sure what CD means but assuming it's actions per turn.
So the Japanese rifleman can choose to attack or move only? Whereas the German can move twice and not attack?

I am confused.

[DreJaDe]

Not sure what CD means but assuming it's actions per turn.

CD is cooldown of the ability.
Meaning that if it's 2 CD. The grenade can only be used once every 3 turn. 2 turn after use, it will not be available.

If it doesn't consume action like the German one. It means that they can still attack after throwing the grenade which is how they used their grenade cause they throw in assaults

[Stratego (dev)]

i will pass this to @Jasondunkel as i dont really konw about grande warfare, the only thisng is important, if A grenade is weaker then B grande than it should like that in game too.

[DreJaDe]

I based not just in math but also on the reality of things such as their uses, effectiveness.

Basing this on what's "weaker" or smt the like would just turn this suggestion more boring.

Like the m2 grenade which is stronger than m24 but is not used in assault.cause of stronger damage that can damage the user ao i suggested to put that as consuming the action while m24 will have weaker damage but doesn't consume action so he can still attack and even stun enemy.

[Stratego (dev)]

sounds good!

[Jasondunkel]

I based not just in math but also on the reality of things such as their uses, effectiveness.

Basing this on what's "weaker" or smt the like would just turn this suggestion more boring.

Like the m2 grenade which is stronger than m24 but is not used in assault.cause of stronger damage that can damage the user ao i suggested to put that as consuming the action while m24 will have weaker damage but doesn't consume action so he can still attack and even stun enemy.

I like the idea of the cooldown and the different % whether the units can move on or not.

my question is where did you get the damaged values from?

for the germans you explained why the movement should be but how they deal with the others nation

otherwise i would like that there is also a bonus against trucks and vehicles like the jeep or the jeep i would suggest a bonus of 50%

[DreJaDe]

my question is where did you get the damaged values from?

The values are taken from both qualitative and quantitative information such as their weight and the description of the performance of the grenade in Wikipedia.


One example is the weight like the Japanese Type 97 which is almost half the weight as others which although I didn't count their TNT concentration, the fragmentation can actually be more important which actually means more weight. (Excluding the German one which have a word handle.)

This though is as I said, supported by the qualitative info such as

"in comparison with Allied hand grenades of the period, the explosive force of the Type 97 was weaker"
-wikipedia

otherwise i would like that there is also a bonus against trucks and vehicles like the jeep or the jeep i would suggest a bonus of 50%

I didn't include the jeep because they are already easy to kill...

I'm actually in the opinion also of buffing them NGL like how they are used by commandos in the African front. But I think your idea is fine for now.

[Jasondunkel]

my question is where did you get the damaged values from?

The values are taken from both qualitative and quantitative information such as their weight and the description of the performance of the grenade in Wikipedia.


One example is the weight like the Japanese Type 97 which is almost half the weight as others which although I didn't count their TNT concentration, the fragmentation can actually be more important which actually means more weight. (Excluding the German one which have a word handle.)

This though is as I said, supported by the qualitative info such as

"in comparison with Allied hand grenades of the period, the explosive force of the Type 97 was weaker"
-wikipedia

otherwise i would like that there is also a bonus against trucks and vehicles like the jeep or the jeep i would suggest a bonus of 50%

I didn't include the jeep because they are already easy to kill...

I'm actually in the opinion also of buffing them NGL like how they are used by commandos in the African front. But I think your idea is fine for now.

what does NGL mean?

The amount of TNT would be a point to show how good a grenade was, but at the same time the effective range was very different I think some weaker grenades were even better

but i didn't read the topic properly. mainly because I think it's going to be a bit too precise.

[DreJaDe]

what does NGL mean?

It means

N-ot
G-onna
L-ie

The amount of TNT would be a point to show how good a grenade was, but at the same time the effective range was very different I think some weaker grenades were even better

Yes, which is why i didn't based most on that.

The m24 of the germans can be used while charging while the m2 of US needs the thrower to hide even though m24 have 170g of TNT while M2 only have 50-100g of tnt.

It was because M2 have a better fragmentation than m24 which causes so much more damage and reach much more radius.

And instead, m24 can stun people because of the blast. Immobilizing them for the charging germans to kill.

[SS-Jericho]

Why does the type 97 only have 1 cooldown. Wouldn't be spammy? But other than that, i think its good.

[DreJaDe]

Why does the type 97 only have 1 cooldown. Wouldn't be spammy? But other than that, i think its good.

It does 12.5 damage to infantry and 17.5 to mgs. Compare to other grenades, it's much weaker.

My idea also since Japanese rifleman have much bigger survival rate because of High health. It's much more advantageous for them to have this though I actually based this on history LOL.

[Stratego (dev)]

this seems stucked
- can we get to a conclusion some way?
- if anyone has yet responed please ask him to.
- if i am wrong and here is a conclusion somewhere please summarize me

thanks!

[SS-Jericho]

Is there any other problem in this suggestion? I dont see any obvious ones. Cause this can be concluded if no one will refute the accuracy for the stats of each grenades.

[DreJaDe]

@Stratego (dev)
I don't think there is anymore that is needed for this.

But just to make sure.
@TntAttack
@Jasondunkel

[Stratego (dev)]

so no change needed?

[DreJaDe]

so no change needed?

The opposite.

A full rework to the anti inf grenades of the units in game.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok, can u please summarize the final todo?
(that jason also accepted)
-thanks!

[Jasondunkel]

Infantry changes

Bomb Changes to Rifleman and other units who already have some of the mentioned anti infantry grenade.

US rifleman
M2 grenade
2CD
Consumes action
7 damage
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

British Rifleman
Mills bomb
8 damage
3CD
Consumes action and movement possible
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

French Rifleman
F2 Grenade
2CD
5 damage
Consumes action
+%300 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%200 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

German Rifleman
2CD
5 damage
Doesn't consume action
Stuns the enemy for 1 turn
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

Japanese Rifleman
Type 97 grenade
1 CD
5 damage
Consumes action
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

Italian rifleman
SRCM Mod. 35
2CD
5 damage
Doesn't consume action
+%300 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%200 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

USSR rifleman
RGD-33 grenade
3 CD
Consumes action
8 damage
+%200 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%200 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

I would like to suggest slight changes here

I would leave the proposed CD as it is

but for the US grenade I would want to do a damage 6 and with the bonuses against MG+AT infantry 200% against the rest of infantry 100%

the british grenade damage 7 bonuses 200% MG+AT
100% rest

Franz stays at damage 5 but bonuses 250% MG+AT
150% remainder

german stays with damage 5 bonuses 200% MG+AT
rest 100% plus the stun thing if stratego can pull it off

Italy 5 damage
bonuses 250% MG+AT
rest150%

Russians harm 7
bonuses 200% MG+AT
rest 100%

[DreJaDe]

I would like to suggest slight changes here

I felt that the decrease with the others damage is not being true to their description IRL.

But I guess im ok if we stay with the original bonuses and the German and the French one reducing their damage to 4.

I fear that you are not seeing the full picture here.

Btw this suggestion will effect the whole balance with Infantry, not just the infantry who will have the grenades. The reduction with the other and staying of the same damage will actually destroy their meta which I'm afraid of doing.

[Jasondunkel]

I would like to suggest slight changes here

I felt that the decrease with the others damage is not being true to their description IRL.

But I guess im ok if we stay with the original bonuses and the German and the French one reducing their damage to 4.

I fear that you are not seeing the full picture here.

Btw this suggestion will effect the whole balance with Infantry, not just the infantry who will have the grenades. The reduction with the other and staying of the same damage will actually destroy their meta which I'm afraid of doing.

okay your bonus distribution my damage distribution

let's try it

[DreJaDe]

okay your bonus distribution my damage distribution

let's try it

What do you mean?

[Jasondunkel]

okay your bonus distribution my damage distribution

let's try it

What do you mean?

like this
but for the US grenade I would want to do a damage 6 and with the bonuses against MG+AT infantry 250% against the rest of infantry 150%
CD 2

the british grenade damage 7 bonuses 250% MG+AT
150% rest
CD 3

Franz stays at damage 5 but bonuses 300% MG+AT
200% remainder
CD 2

german stays with damage 5 bonuses 250% MG+AT
rest 150% plus the stun thing if stratego can pull it off
CD 2

Italy 5 damage
bonuses 300% MG+AT
remainder 200%
CD 2

Russians harm 7
bonuses 300% MG+AT
remainder 200%
CD 3

Japanese Rifleman
1 CD
5 damage
Consumes action
+%250 bonus against MG and AT rifleman
+%150 bonus to all infantry (not mg and at)

[DreJaDe]

like this

Oh ok

I can agree with this.

[Stratego (dev)]

these are alsmost ready
(eg. Stun effects are not in.)