PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants IMPLEMENTED

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makazuwr32
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants IMPLEMENTED

Post by makazuwr32 »

Anchar wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 11:08 pm To be honest, when I used mines, they didn't really help me (although I didn't build them cell to cell and digit to digit) are they really that significant?Yes, maybe you got these units quickly, but at the same time you lost extra production by replacing them with accelerators, as if the Humans supplied a lot of couriers for the elephant speedrun. If your opponent survives the zerg rush, then later he can crush you by shooting the same magicians in 3 moves with magic arrows on human, elves + immobilize, don't mummies already work with their victim on the undead? As for the healers, they can be shot in advance by archers.
1 gold mine can speed up 4 buildings near it at once for 3 turns in a row for in total -12 turns reduction for a cycle of 4 turns (5 turns in future) when all 3 techs are researched. Humans can't even dream about such production speed increase since in case of dwarves ratio of such speed up when maxed is about 2.2-2.3 per 1 turn cost while for humans it is 0.5 per 1 turn cost. Yes at base it is around 0.4-0.7 thus early game it actually might be true that you waste production onto gold mine. But only up until you get proper position of all 4 factories to speed up and unlock tier 2 speed up ability.
And you also can even further speed up producion with gem mines.

And also you can get minecarts which may boost for you various things — from production for 1-3 turns up to gunpowder units for +7 extra attack, casters for extra spe power, or even workers for +1/+2 actions for 1 turn (stackable with each other).

I must remind that this -40 turns cost reduction for 12 turns was applied not only to this factory with 14 turn cost war mammoths but also to other factories as well (alas i did not supply those with additional money couriers aka gold/gem carts thus it was around 24 turns speed up instead). In total for those 12 turns i've got 6 dwarven shielders (4 turns cost each), 6 dwarven musketeers (4 turns cost each) and 5 dwarven boar riders (5 turns cost each, on 13th turn i've got 6th boar rider). All that from 4 factories around 1 gold mine with all 3 abilities unlocked.

Is it still insignificant? This speed is something that even orcs with their current ridiculously op goblin looting ability on goblin spikers along with grenade casted onto hamletback still could only ever dream about.
So insignificant that end game dwarves definitely not because of this but because of increased units costs compared to other races are considered as most spamming race rivalling even undeads.

Only problem here with gold mines is that they require astounding amounts of micromanagement — base planning, production planning, carefully looking for cooldowns of each separate ability and so on — to maximize speed up output. In hands of less experienced players i think around 30-50% of this potential is wasted into the void.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Anchar
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants

Post by Anchar »

Then you need to raise the price of ALL dwarves to 20?
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Anchar
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants

Post by Anchar »

This is more a problem of the mines, not of this subrace.
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makazuwr32
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants

Post by makazuwr32 »

We are trying to adjust their abilities to make them less op.

Which is why their abilities cooldown will be increased fro 4 up to 5 turns (3 abilities in total).
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Stratego (dev)
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants ACCEPTED_SOLUTION

Post by Stratego (dev) »

1. All melee defender rhino/mammoth riders anti-building bonuses removed
i found these to be "All melee defender rhino/mammoth riders":
- Defender Chevalier (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_KNIGHT) - checked and seems not having bonus agaisnt any buildings already - am i missing something?
- Defender Lancer (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_LANCER) - DONE
- Defender War Mammoth (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_WAR_MAMMOTH)- checked and seems not having bonus agaisnt any buildings already - am i missing something?
any other?
and i remove ALL bonuses of them that is against any type of buildings - right?



also these are done:
DONE: 2. also Defender rhino lancer Change its cost up to 11 turns
DONE: 3. also change cost of defender chevalier up to 12 turns (from current 11)
DONE: 4. also defender rhino rifleman cost up to 11 (from current 10)
DONE: 5. also defender war mammoth cost up to 15 (from current 14)
DONE: 6. also defender mammoth rifleman cost up to 14 (from current 13)
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makazuwr32
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants ACCEPTED_SOLUTION

Post by makazuwr32 »

Stratego (dev) wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 6:56 am 1. All melee defender rhino/mammoth riders anti-building bonuses removed
i found these to be "All melee defender rhino/mammoth riders":
- Defender Chevalier (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_KNIGHT)
- Defender Lancer (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_LANCER)
- Defender War Mammoth (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_WAR_MAMMOTH)
any other?
and i remove ALL bonuses of them that is against any type of buildings - right?

Yes.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants ACCEPTED_SOLUTION

Post by Stratego (dev) »

these were problem as they had no buildings bonus already:
- Defender Chevalier (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_KNIGHT) - checked and seems not having bonus agaisnt any buildings already - am i missing something?
- Defender War Mammoth (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_WAR_MAMMOTH)- checked and seems not having bonus agaisnt any buildings already - am i missing something?
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makazuwr32
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants ACCEPTED_SOLUTION

Post by makazuwr32 »

Stratego (dev) wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 7:05 am these were problem as they had no buildings bonus already:
- Defender Chevalier (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_KNIGHT) - checked and seems not having bonus agaisnt any buildings already - am i missing something?
- Defender War Mammoth (UNIT_DWARF_DEFENDER_WAR_MAMMOTH)- checked and seems not having bonus agaisnt any buildings already - am i missing something?
If they do not have those it is good.
I think right now only defender rhino lancer has those.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Stratego (dev)
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Re: PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) »

ok, than all done.
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