PRI#4 Elf Apprentice Lacks Range CLOSED

[Aral_Yaren]

Concern: Elf Apprectice only has 2 casting range for Disarmor (and Slowing). Most races have at least 3 rng, even 4 for Ork. Sure they will have +3 but that after a whopping 15 turn (3/5/7), almost the most of all races just to add magic arcane rng. And moreover, they have no rise in hp (sure there are dodge, yet 3:7 random chance for such a puny 31 hp).

Solution: add all their default casting rng +1 (include the magic laser).

[makazuwr32]

They are supposed to have less spell range than proper elven casters so no they will not receive extra spell range.

Some abilities alas will receive extra spell range later.

Answered.

[Aral_Yaren]

Leader knows exactly how fragile Apprentice is to cast their spell from only 2 RNG. Among other races with 3 turn caster, they are the most puny not only in hp, but mainly in RNG. Even Ud 2 turn Mage with fear ability can do great job, considering only lessening armor. And let there be no long explanation on how to wait 15 turn just to get +3 RNG, or how to get her inside Ent after 7 turn + 4 turn and move quickly to any front it needed.

At least lower their cost to 2 turn if they were meant to be trash.

[makazuwr32]

Yes i know. And if ir was not me than she would not even have disarmor and will keep having only slowing and magic missile while having hp lower than town watch.

Apprentice right now is not complete unit due to the fact that it must have part of sorceress spells which are also under replanning. Consider her as wip.

But spell rsnge for her will not increase — elves sre not even near close to the best casters of humans and undeads.
Some abilities will get extra spell range alas.

Orcs will get nerfs to spell range.

[Stratego (dev)]

so the 2 turn cost is ok?

[makazuwr32]

No.
This unit has 3 range 30 armor ignoring damage dealing ability.
That alone is good enough for 3 turns but it will make unit more op than ettins under all buffs if she will get 2 turn cost.

Especially with her current set of spells.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok, others? what u think? eg. @Savra @Jerryqian39 @Vladneral ?
but anyone please take a position or a suggestion.

[Aral_Yaren]

Well I just comply, mainly because now I know a 300+ hp, 40+ attak, 2 attack rng and 1+ aoe and 8 turn unit with all his buff Ork can give in the shape of ettin in considered inferior vs a group of 10 Apprentice (equal 30 turn).

Thanks.

[makazuwr32]

4 2 turn cost apprentices with slowing can stop for sure 2 ettins and even deal some damage. That alone is enough to consider them powerful.

[Stratego (dev)]

Well I just comply, mainly because now

it mean you also wait for others to confirm your suggestion?

[makazuwr32]

4 2 turn cost apprentices with slowing can stop for sure 2 ettins and even deal some damage. That alone is enough to consider them powerful.

This is from play testing experience, not meaningless words.
We required to increase cost up to 3 turns or otherwise apprentice spam was able to eradicate even orcs before.
And before orcs were more powerful than right now, after many nerfs.

[Jerryqian39]

Well apprentice are like monster mage but with more spell and less range.she has disarmor with is very decent for elf as a armor shover. -20/20 is a lot to be honest
with that put in wagon it can easily approch Enemy are cast disarmed not saying it has 4speed.elf is already very powerful early game race.I do not think apprentice need to be cost 2

[Vladneral]

I see no problem here - its fine as it is.

[makazuwr32]

Exactly.
And slowing spell is another extremely useful for arrow showers since enemy will approach you at lesser speed and thus giving you more time for arrow showers.

[DreJaDe]

I think increasing the range is alright

I mean, it's a given that elf would be 4 speed. That shouldn't be part of discussion. That's already equal to the hp advantage of humans and orcs and other what not they could get and for other races too.

Let's not forget that for a 3 turn unit we could get a goblin shaman and for a 5 turn, we have a warlock Even 3 turn necromancer gets a 5 turn range for magic missile with all that OP skill.

So yeah, I think it's more than alright.

[makazuwr32]

Let me ask you:
If slowing had not 60% chance but 100% chance will she become better in your eyes?

If yes than we can apply this change right now.

[DreJaDe]

Let me ask you:
If slowing had not 60% chance but 100% chance will she become better in your eyes?

If yes than we can apply this change right now.

Wasn't there problems with the chances?

Also the suggestion is for it's imbalance with other range units.

One mode. There are already a lot of slowing ability for elves. Adding one with 100% doesn't really do much.

Okay two. Talking about slow. I remember bolas throw should have worked against giants. What happened to that?

[makazuwr32]

Let me ask you:
If slowing had not 60% chance but 100% chance will she become better in your eyes?

If yes than we can apply this change right now.

Wasn't there problems with the chances?

Also the suggestion is for it's imbalance with other range units.

One mode. There are already a lot of slowing ability for elves. Adding one with 100% doesn't really do much.

Okay two. Talking about slow. I remember bolas throw should have worked against giants. What happened to that?

Regarding slowing on elves:

First.
Current chance is 60% which against units even with 20% spell resist turns into less than 50%.
Right now it is inconvenient to use slowing as spell.

Second.
Only current ability with guaranteed chance is bolas throw and it works only on non-mounted foot melee. Yes it works on giants as well but it works only for 2 turns and does not affect such targets as cavalry, flyers or mechanical units.

Third.
Entangle spell is also having 60% chance to apply. On top of that it is presented only on 6 turn cost caster.

Fourth.
Yes elves have frost archers who can slow down their target by -1 and decrease attack by -12 but -1 speed for cavalry is not that much. Especially for cavalry who has means of self speeding up.

Because of that in current situation only convenient slowing-type ability is bolas throw and frost archer.

If we will give her proper slowing than after slowing is applied spell range will not be a problem for her early game.

[Stratego (dev)]

as i see this is not a confirmed valance problem

if i am not mistaking:
Aral: says problem
Makaw, Vlad, Jerry: not problem

can is set it to closed without change?

[makazuwr32]

Actually i am already planning change for it.