PRI#2 Ork Goblin Archer Spams IMPLEMENTED

[Aral_Yaren]

Concern: Goblin Tower spawn a Goblin Archer when destroyed. That being said, with 1 worker and 3 laborers an Ork player can assure 1 Goblin Tower then DESTROY IT to get a Goblin Archer for free in only 1 turn. Pretty much abusive.

Solving: remove this attribute for good as Goblin Archer is already comparatively cheap.

[makazuwr32]

I'd say for tower that has no carry capacity is it fine.
Alas i was planning to spawn if possible wounded and dazed archer — it will have -1 speed and -3 actions for 1-2 turns after destroying tower as well as 50% of hp.

Ofc if that is possible mechanic wise.

[Stratego (dev)]

others: what u think? is the balance problem is
a) no problem
b) it is problem.

thanks.

[Aral_Yaren]

B) Mega B

Why: with such almost free unit Ork can hold their line longer to wait their considerably cheap for the benefit of upgrade cost.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok.
would this be enough that Maklaw suggested?

unit will have -1 speed and -3 actions for 1-2 turns after destroying tower as well as 50% of hp.

as i will only think the possiblility how to make (a new unit maybe)

if not any other specific suggestions?

[Aral_Yaren]

For now and at that mentioned stage, I comply with your wisdom.

[Stratego (dev)]

you mean this is good as solution such unit makaw wrote?

[Aral_Yaren]

My first suggestion is to ERASE this attribute at all or just SUBSTITUTE this with Goblin Spiker (the latter is the simple, exact solution).

(If it were to follow Maka, the problem still exist, it just delays matter - "making Goblin Tower behind the line with wagon after effect is over" shall be issue for future IMO).

[Stratego (dev)]

ok, goblin spiker, easy to make solution.
makaw: are you ok with it?

[Stratego (dev)]

ok until makaw not say not good it is set to SOLUTION_ACCEPTED

[Stratego (dev)]

ok i am in a roll of doing all so i make it and later we can change if better idea comes, or have time for a more complex fix.

[Stratego (dev)]

IMPLEMENTED

[makazuwr32]

Uhm but it is property of this tower. Removing that will be equial removing raise dead from necromancer and lich.

So i am against it.

Yes they can support their frontline with those free goblin archers but that's it.
They have range 5-7, not too high hp and orcs might just make stone shelter or stone pile instead to use. And those 2 are still more useful.

@Stratego (dev) by the way.
Is it possible to disable "kill own unit" for some units?

[Stratego (dev)]

Is it possible to disable "kill own unit" for some units?

not possible and would not be so good imho.

as a quickie now i made the goblin spiker being summoned on die - that is weaker than an archer that is ok right?

[makazuwr32]

Still no. It must be archer since tower has proper archer image.

Also while it might be powerful it is not even close to be considered as op.

[Stratego (dev)]

you said it is ment to e 50%hp thing without action and so on, so it is too strong atm from that point of view too.
also i dont feel problem that the falling unit loses his bows and having only sticks after.

whatever, if this is a balance issue (player can call for it ) than we need to give a weaker unit there

[makazuwr32]

Still no.
Debuff to archer is fine. Unit change upon death is not.

It is as if mounted knight in aos when "dies" will become peasant with 3hp instead of 22 hp foot knight (i know that there is no such units in aos but comparison is right here — why unit who is trained will loose weapon and half of its health if not more?).

Also i doubt that removing intended features is good move l.
Someone i saw was shouting "undeads are op being able to raise skeletons, pls delete that!". Ofc with numbers and such. But still it is core mechanic of unit.

If we will follow this route than i am sure that we will hear some time later demands to nerf raise dead of undeads so they will only raise 1 turn skeletons from bodies instead of knights, monsters and dragons.

[Aral_Yaren]

Leader, when died our Knight those who mount or on foot in AoS shall keep "rest in peace", none of his corpse would get desacred. Nor do we have 3 hp Peasant as far as my humble memory (I state I coild be wrong). Yet the most overall is that in AoS we do not "construct" our Knight using so many workers so that we could get a Knight in just 1 turn. Nor even an Archer when our tower destroyed.

Thanks.

[makazuwr32]

Than ud raise dead and especially grave diggers and graves must be even more op, right?

As for me due to amount of nerfs orcs already received and will receive in future keeping at least some features — goblin falling on hamletbacks, goblin archer dropping from that tower — is a must or otherwise players will complain about that we are only nerfing orcs again and again non-stop.

[DreJaDe]

Than ud raise dead and especially grave diggers and graves must be even more op, right?

As for me due to amount of nerfs orcs already received and will receive in future keeping at least some features — goblin falling on hamletbacks, goblin archer dropping from that tower — is a must or otherwise players will complain about that we are only nerfing orcs again and again non-stop.

Thats because they are the most powerful race.

They the easiest to make a mistake and become easily the most powerful in every update.

While others, people always have to find the OP formula that needs to be nerfed.

[makazuwr32]

Well that's how they should be.
Orcs must be most user-friendly race.

[Savra]

I have to agree with Makazuwr on this one, I've already started hearing the complaints, and the fact that it rare now for orcs to get any new content anymore because people only seem to complain about them.

If not counting subs, orcs actually have about the same number units as the scaledfolks roughly do, dwarves have already surpassed them in units as well, for a UC race.

So Archer drop, with reduction to HP and actions is fine solution for me, that was the original plan, and that's what we're going to stick with.

[Savra]

Good news is I can actually do this, which means I can re-attempt a certain undead trait also...

[Stratego (dev)]

it is implemented as goblin spiker to quickly solve the balance problem - we can open separate toppic to figure out how to make archers being dropped.