soul collector and animation mastery rebalance CLOSED

[DragonWarrior]

With the soul collector I only ask one thing, that it can be trained in villages, it would also make sense since "you are collecting the surplus souls of the village"

with Animation Mastery it is simply the cost, it takes 28 turns to get it and that's just counting the technologies that cannot be done at the same time, since the total cost to be able to have this investigated is 42 turns, seriously the cost is ridiculous, and after that you have 2 more technologies to increase the probability...

[makazuwr32]

Animation mastery will stay for now as it is.
Raising from dead units only monster skeletons and golden skeletons is really powerful so cost is fair.
Elves for example need for maxed dodges 45 turns in total.
Also 2 last techs do not "increase probability to raise better skeletons" but they remove all chances to raise worse skeletons instead.

We might tweak possibility of raising armored, golden and monster skeletons alas for techs which allow to raise them from corpses.

For soul collector there are plans to rebalance it a bit — 3rd tech that will unlock free soul collector summon on mega building similar to wisps.
Also reduction for ability to summon them on necromancer and lich.

Also later undeads will get another set of basic units — wights.
They will not have tiers but will have blacksmith-based upgrades for attack, range, armor and hp (3 of which in future will affect some other units from subs, excluding hp tech).

Also i have in mind some extra techs for skeletons as well to improve them.

[DragonWarrior]

For soul collector there are plans to rebalance it a bit — 3rd tech that will unlock free soul collector summon on mega building similar to wisps.

...I don't understand how they think that works well... the elf technology costs 7 turns (Not counting previous technologies) and the mega structure ability has a cooldown of 5 turns, rarely you will have more than 1 of those structures, it may be 2 if the game takes a long time, That means that the technology after obtaining it becomes profitable after 35 turns (17 if you have 2 mega structures) they really think the cost is profitable just to get 1 turn every 5 turns...

[DragonWarrior]

Also reduction for ability to summon them on necromancer and lich.

And if instead they make the ability not take a turn when used, normally both the Lich and the necromancer are very busy reviving corpses and creating golems to avoid dying

[DragonWarrior]

Animation mastery will stay for now as it is.
Raising from dead units only monster skeletons and golden skeletons is really powerful so cost is fair.
Elves for example need for maxed dodges 45 turns in total.
Also 2 last techs do not "increase probability to raise better skeletons" but they remove all chances to raise worse skeletons instead.

We might tweak possibility of raising armored, golden and monster skeletons alas for techs which allow to raise them from corpses.

do not worry about that, as I use the undead as my main I do not have much experience with the other factions, so I did not know if this was profitable or not compared to the others, with the explanation I already realized that it is fine as it is

but the investigation "animated dead improved" should be able to investigate after "animated dead armored" is investigated (and the same with its gold versions)

[makazuwr32]

For soul collector there are plans to rebalance it a bit — 3rd tech that will unlock free soul collector summon on mega building similar to wisps.

...I don't understand how they think that works well... the elf technology costs 7 turns (Not counting previous technologies) and the mega structure ability has a cooldown of 5 turns, rarely you will have more than 1 of those structures, it may be 2 if the game takes a long time, That means that the technology after obtaining it becomes profitable after 35 turns (17 if you have 2 mega structures) they really think the cost is profitable just to get 1 turn every 5 turns...

I summoned first wisp from great tree on turn 12. Wisp summoning on great trees i think has cd 4 turns.
Also i must remind that wisp summoning elves also have on temples of nature.

As for "rarely you will see more than 1 mega" — depending on the map. On 20x20 and smaller maybe. On 30x30 and bigger i usually get maxed in both factories and megas and because 5+ great trees is not uncommon for me.
On few games i even have more than 15 megas.

Also reduction for ability to summon them on necromancer and lich.

And if instead they make the ability not take a turn when used, normally both the Lich and the necromancer are very busy reviving corpses and creating golems to avoid dying

I will quote here myself:

Also later undeads will get another set of basic units — wights.
They will not have tiers but will have blacksmith-based upgrades for attack, range, armor and hp (3 of which in future will affect some other units from subs, excluding hp tech).

This will be alternative to skeletons. They will be presented in tcs and their own factory, they also will have their own melee range single target raise dead on some units.
Yes you will in this case raise only basic skeletons via necromancers and liches so in this case soul collector summoning will be more profitable.

Animation mastery will stay for now as it is.
Raising from dead units only monster skeletons and golden skeletons is really powerful so cost is fair.
Elves for example need for maxed dodges 45 turns in total.
Also 2 last techs do not "increase probability to raise better skeletons" but they remove all chances to raise worse skeletons instead.

We might tweak possibility of raising armored, golden and monster skeletons alas for techs which allow to raise them from corpses.

do not worry about that, as I use the undead as my main I do not have much experience with the other factions, so I did not know if this was profitable or not compared to the others, with the explanation I already realized that it is fine as it is

but the investigation "animated dead improved" should be able to investigate after "animated dead armored" is investigated (and the same with its gold versions)

No.
Animated dead improved removes from raisable list normal skeletons and it is too powerful to allow that right after researching animate dead armored. Unless the cost will be raised 3 times at least for this tech.

[MrLich]

Elves build their megas super fast though, just train like 4 woodshapers and get 1 mega tree each turn, pretty easy rn, will change in future when elfs mega will get some serious stopping power, but even then elfs will get their megas faster

[MrLich]

Dwarfes are unquestionably Best at cooldown spped up, followed by elfs(you can always build more temples of nature to get more wisps, its easy to get them, orcs(you can kill off goblins and turn their corpses to couriers, but nobody does that, its kinda hard to setup with goblin cooldowns, ud have raising soul colllectors from the dead, but it requires ton of casters, and enough filler corpses like swordsman one, and lastly theres humans, who have plain train 2 turns couriers, albeit without research, not that they need more, they are one of most op races and consistent at that

[makazuwr32]

I'd say some cd reduction for soul collector summoning along with 3rd tier of tech that will unlock ability to summon soul collector for megas (for free probably, but might have a bit higher cd than elven one) is enough.

[MrLich]

That depends how new ud will end, but i still think anything they can get will Look balanced compared to mines

[makazuwr32]

Well current mines' cd on abilities can be changed if required.

We will look onto this matter after buildings update.

Also new undeads will be sooner than you expect.
All stats update for apocalyptic knights is ready, now we only need images for them and jsons, so that is depending on savra.

[MrLich]

They definitely need a purge, like so far i played them, they were a trash bin in terms of units consistency and power, like too many casters, too many auras, not enough plain good units, pretty much the opposite of humans

[MrLich]

Playing ud is like having limited choice of mediocre units, that somehow look great compared to majority of rest, like i can count on one hand all ud units worth training, rest is just filler more or less

[makazuwr32]

Apocalyptic knights now will become good damage dealers.
They will get more abilities each, many of which will be depending on spell power.

Undeads wl not rely onto brute force to deal damage (in most cases at least) but onto magic.

Look into personal messages on forum — i've sent you a planned update for one of those.

[MrLich]

Yeah i saw the New Blood knight, seems like a big improvement, albeit now ud will use skeles as mana lol

[makazuwr32]

Well that is the plan anyway.
More units who will use skeletons to activate their abilities will come in later as well.

We just do not have enough time to work on literally everything.

[MrLich]

They always were fodder to begin with, at least now they can do more than die at the frontline, they even can be a building material lol

[Stratego (dev)]

is this still a balance issue?

[makazuwr32]

Obsolete.