Orc have way too much free units IMPLEMENTED

[Stratego (dev)]

ok here is the proposed list ifg units to into "upgrades" section (to unlock with gems)

Here

Units
Cheetah archer
Cheetah rider
Goblin Spiker
Goblin Crossbowman
Orcish crusher
Orc Archer
Orcish Axe thrower
Elite sabertooth rider
Master sabertooth rider
Goblin Shaman
Troll Shaman
Orc Scout
Raptor rider

Buildings
Troll hut
Orc Pit
Stone shelter

@Vladneral @Aral_Yaren @Jerryqian39
please tell us if you would put all, or which from these (or from any) would you put to upgrades section?

[Vladneral]

Elite Sabertooth rider ???!!!
Master Sabertooth rider ???!!!

I think put this in upgrade section:

Cheetah archer
Cheetah rider
Troll hut
Troll shaman

Others should stay

[makazuwr32]

I do not agree with troll hut since it is required for orcs only skirmisher — troll headhunter.

[DreJaDe]

I do not agree with troll hut since it is required for orcs only skirmisher — troll headhunter.

Troll head hunter is trainable in tc.

I think in no upgrades game, allowing enemy to make that specific unit in factory really puts the elves in jeopardy. I mean, elves doesn't even have a swordsman on no upgrade game.

[makazuwr32]

I do not agree with troll hut since it is required for orcs only skirmisher — troll headhunter.

Troll head hunter is trainable in tc.

I think in no upgrades game, allowing enemy to make that specific unit in factory really puts the elves in jeopardy. I mean, elves doesn't even have a swordsman on no upgrade game.

For elves that will be changed.
It is quite messy as i mentioned already to play in no upgrades games.

[Stratego (dev)]

we can not say "will be changed" we change now.

so: shall i also remove elf swordsman from upgrades?

[makazuwr32]

we can not say "will be changed" we change now.

so: shall i also remove elf swordsman from upgrades?

That is only 1 example of many-many issues with that mode and i do not want to work on that right now since we will make good amount of changes pretty soon.

For example elves in general now have no cavalry at all in that mode.
Or undeads with current necromancers can steamroll through any race in no upgrades mode with usage of flesh golems.
Or elves not being able to counter troll headhunters (partially because lack of cavalry).
Or humans having mages can deal with elves pretty easy with their cavalry under lifelink effect.
Or ents of elves in that mode are unkillable (no slingers are presented for any race).

If i remember correctly i found at least 244 issues in no upgrades game. And if we will make some changes now to that upcoming additions and changes to core mechanics — buildings and magic — will break that balance again into pieces like nuclear explosion vs glass greenhouse in the middle of it.

Even pointing out all those problems will require 50-70 real hours of my time. And working on solving those will require about 500-700 real hours.

[Stratego (dev)]

i see, and no problem that You dont want to think of these now, but I want to work on it now, and in general: as i already said:
we never postpone a confirmed balance problem we simply make a fix, it should not solve "all" problems only the popped up one (so we dont want to be perfect for now, we just want to get closer to perfection.)

so currently i would make this so far (as most people wanted at least these):
Put these into upgrades:
- Cheetah archer
- Cheetah rider
- Troll hut
- Troll shaman

Removing from upgrades:
- ?

[Savra]

Should just allow everyone the bare basics of they're races.

Eg:
Swordsman
Spearman
Archer
Knight
Lancer
Fire Archer (thrower)
Worker
Mounted Archer
Healer

Cheap tower

As for factories:
Basic structures that involve these

[Stratego (dev)]

i hope we kinda have these (or some similar approach)

we can fix all that is out of such approach.

for now i make this orc list.
- Cheetah archer
- Cheetah rider
- Troll hut
- Troll shaman

(I think mostly orcs could have more than needed - as Alex was a little supporting orcs more than others imho, or only by accident)

[makazuwr32]

Here i agree since orcs right now have 2 full sized subs — uruks and minotaurs — and 1 half ready sub — savages which we will expand firstly in near future — as well as units for almost every possible situation on the battlefield (with exception of units with disenchant which is supposed to be their weakness and slingers in whom they actually do not have any need).