GAJ

[ZakTheBuilder1]

The Anti Ground aircraft that has twin Gau-8's
The craft is jet powered and is able to shoot 120 rounds per second
All you would hear is a little BRRT and 120 rounds are gone.
The calibre is 30mm

The role in game is to cause as much damage in the least amount of time

Link of what I think it should look like
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAD

[Midonik]

Do I understand you well? This is an jet aircraft that uses machine guns to combat ground units? Cause that's absolutely unrealistic, unless it can stay still in the air like a helicopter.

I also don't like the random model and nickname names you suggest. I feel like they are a little silly in a sci-fi setting, and also they give you no information about what the unit actually is. I much prefer "unit types" names (e.g. not Panzer V "Panther" but "medium tank") if it's possible. That also applies to weaponry names. I wouldn't put "Gau-8" in a unit description, instead information on what it actually is - a high caliber machine gun.
That does not apply to map editor only units, however.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

Sir calm down
Its realistic because the model is based off a real craft that does this thing called a straif run
its where the craft flyes over and engages the target while moving with no not machine guns but two 30millimeter miniguns
Ill call it the Ground Attack Craft but what if there is some thing simmilar
thats why i give them names
like the sky fortress how do you know thats a aircraft carrier it could be a floating flak fortress but we wont know because its name

I dont want to see anything being called silly in a sci-fi game everything is silly and unrealistic

[Midonik]

You haven't seen me angry yet sir, I thought I approached this in a reasonably calm way in the original message. If that were not how it appeared to you I apologize and will keep a calmer demeanor if possible.

I'm not sure I quite understand the "straif run". However if the Facebook video from RAF's Bombing Site was of any indication, it is when a plane descents to a lower altitude and moves forward slowly in a relatively flat line to then ascend up. Which is what I figured how you want it to be originally, so I stand by my opinion that it is unrealistic.

It's a jet, so it moves with speed over that of the sound. Wouldn't it be almost impossible for it to hit targets with a weapon as inaccurate as a minigun? Bombs or rockets make more sense. Well, let's assume it can move slower while performing the run. It's tactical speed makes it hard to coordinate in a practical military operation. A much slower helicopter (that, I will admit, I'm having problems integrating into this game) would be more pratical for close air support.

I can agree with an "Ground attack aircraft", tho I would prefer if the name was shorter. Sky fortress still gives you a better idea than of what it is than "P-111 Warnock". At least you know that a sky fortress is a plane. I much prefer to have to change the "unit type" name in some cases than to change the name every time cause it doesn't fit the game's naming style.

I dont want to see anything being called silly in a sci-fi game everything is silly and unrealistic

That might be your view, however I disagree, at least when it comes to humans and reptilans, as they are the most similar to future humanity (I can close and eye on silliness for the sake of flavour for very alien insectoids, myconids and avians). I strive to make this as realistic and accurate representation of possible future combat as possible with game's engine and amateur knowledge of me and other forumers.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

All im going to say is that the minigun that the plane uses is able of hiting specific targets because the pilot doesnt hold down the trigger they do it in bursts.
The mini gun causes the plane to slow down enough to hit the target and or the pilot does
Its not like a minigun from a game

Ill think of a name or call sign
Ground Attack Jet or
GAJ for short??????????????????/

Heres a pic of the guns that the jet will have
It has two of these...
https://i.insider.com/579a52aa88e4a79f1 ... ormat=jpeg

[Midonik]

How can minigun "slow down" a plane? I also have no idea what "combat videos" and "game" are you referring to.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

Just listen
The recoil of the guns make the plane slow down
There are videos showing the A-10 warthog in combat senarios such as Operation Desert Storm

[Midonik]

That, sir, is just a myth. It's the stabilization engines that allows it to slow down and nearly hang in air.


Btw, that's literally what VTOLs are, so this unit is basically in game.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

DUDE NO it doesnt just float in air
Im geting tired of trying to explain its a powerful ground attacker

[Midonik]

I did say "nearly".
I'm not tired of telling you that I don't like this idea, I can do it all day.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

It doesnt nearly float
its a normal clucking jet
that lines up on a target from afar and shoots it when it gets close enough
you can tell me you dont like it but its another thing when you have to explain how it works in the real world over and over and over and over again/

[Midonik]

Then I repeat my argument from before:

Wouldn't it be almost impossible for it to hit targets with a weapon as inaccurate as a minigun? Bombs or rockets make more sense.

I'm the one explaining things over and over again.

Anyway, I'm highly open to an idea of a rocket armed aircraft focused on CAS. It might overlap a bit with the multirole plane, however we can remove it's fighter capabilities, focusing on CAS capabilities only. That way it will become a faster, cheaper, less expensive, with a bit of range, but less damage dealing and durable bomber. It could also focus more on fighting tanks using ground penetrating missiles. We could call it a "rocket plane" or something.

Other idea for a CAS, keeping your miniguns, is an attack helicopter. Helicopter moves at low speed on low attitude, meaning it can efficiently use a weapon such as minigun.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

its not impossible beecause of real world examples defying your explaination

rockets are bland this has a sweeter taste.

[Midonik]

I disagree. Rockets go with humans waaaaay better.
A-10 is not a good example that "defyies my explanation", because, unlike your suggestion, it's armed with bombs and missile I'm addition to the gun. I'm pretty sure that the main purpose of the gun is anti-air combat, while it's rockets and bombs that do most of the CAS work. You suggest a CAS that uses just a minigun.

BUT

Im sure you will have another rebuttal about real live examples etc. We can argue like that forever, as we are no experts on it. Let's put realism aside, and consider other reasons for why I don't like your idea.

I disagree. Rockets go with humans waaaaay better.

Why do I say that?
I'm not sure if you noticed, but rockets are a main weaponary our humans use for ranged combat. Their technology is most advanced in terms of this kind of weapons. Hell, they even have a whole tech tree boosting their attack. Because of that, rockets are more thematic weapons for humans.
Additionally, VTOLS already have planes using, admittedly laser, guns for CAS, in an anti-infantry/light vehicle role. Your idea overlaps with them - even if it's just a more elite version or smt, it will all come down to which unit is more cost efficient and that unit will be used over the other. My correction of your idea, the "rocket plane", is more unique, as it gives it a bit of anti-tank role, and also range of the rockets.

I'm not discarding your idea, and, as much as this discussion is way too long to it's value (tho I enjoy that fully and drag it on for my own satisfaction), I think you are very productive, giving many ideas that can be used in game. However, you need to accept the fact that they need corrections to fit it best. I want to direct you attention to the fact that I'm the design leader of this project and it's my responsibility to lead it as well as it's possible. I have the big image of the game in my head, so I know what fits it better than you do. It is going to be far more productive for both of us if you open your mind to the possibility of changes to your ideas. I don't want to take away you law to object, but it would be much nicer if you were more cooperative.


Your idea is not being rejected, it's being rescued. Please, don't resist.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

K





One thing the gun is for tank busting
And the missiles are for anti air and the bombs are for other ground thingies

What happens when your dreams are shattered and your told your not good enough
VVVV


I hav experinc wif ve bom woad
The thing hav bom an miss
De gun fo armo becuv of it bein 30mm
If it fer plan it be 50.cal

[Midonik]

30mm caliber gun is not strong enough to pierce tank armor.


Anyway, I'm not saying you aren't good enough. You're new here. Let me explain the rules of this forum.

You are the kind of person that joined the forum to see your ideas in game. That's completely fine - I am the same. People like you and me are valuable for Ao games - we have many good ideas we are persistent about, and we don't hesitate to oppose people who criticise them. Arguments are good for Ao games, cause they push things forward, but only if they are productive. Meaning there is no reason to drag the lost ones.
There are people who have more experience than you in terms of knowing what works and what doesn't, and who have a bigger understanding of the big picture. I'm not saying I make no mistakes and always know what I'm saying - no, half the time I have no idea what I'm doing. But I've actively been on forum for nearly 4 years now and I'm the design leader of this variant. You didn't yet have the chance to gain the knowledge and experience that I obtained thru personal dedication and other people's support.
The deal we are doing here is that you give me ideas that are valuable, and I give you the satisfaction of seeing them in game. However, I can't accept all your ideas, as the good of the game is my responsibility. I need to change the ones that don't work. It doesn't mean you're worse, as I said I have knowledge and experience you didn't yet have the chance to get. You give me ideas and accept necessary changes and sometimes rejections, I put them in game.

Take it or leave it.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

K
You don't know what I know...
You may be one year ahead but you don't know what I know...
You strong arm me but you do you know what I know...

Oh yeah
One thing I forgot to say with the plane and its gun and well the armor its facing

The tops of the tanks would be less than 40mm so the weapon would be able to penetrate but with the futuristic tanks idk

Its not so much me wanting to see it in game as it is me wanting the game to be balanced
There's going to be a point in which a faction is better than another

Let's say the lizard army has better tanks than the humans and the player can't produce any tank to counter because it it will fail, so he has the option of the GAJ.

Idk or care anymore you can kick it to the curb or not unrealistic my a#$%

[Anchar]

I didn't really read your argument, but it's funny for me to see the argument about weapon recoil in a galaxy game. It seems to me that in such battles on many planets there will be no air or gravity, as, for example, somewhere on the Moon.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

Well it its never been anywhere else if its on the moon the pilot would die I think.

I had to argue about it being real
Then he tells me he's the manager pretty much as says that's not realistic and says that's just another VTOL plane, but I'm like bro it slows down not completely

While I explain it he just says its impossible to use such weapon
Then I tell him that its based in a real aircraft and that you saying it impossible is the dumbest thing you could say to someone that knows what there talking about

I'm banged my head on my desk when I read all that he's said

[Anchar]

Well, in general, the pilot would die in space, and this game would be called the era of modern war (or war of the future) on Earth. Personally, I would like to see this game so that the combat devices do not look like the typical weapons of modern armies. I agree with how reptiles and humans look, but insects in spacesuits and with machine guns look funny. I hope that the birds will look like the protoss from Starcraft, and the myconids like the zerg (or the necromorphs from the Dead Space).

As for your dispute, as I already wrote, I think that there are very few planets similar to Earth and wars will be fought for minerals or for the possession of the planet in order to make it fit for life (and every race has its own suitability for life), therefore most planets can have different gravity and different atmospheres, and therefore I think that your argument about whether machine guns can shoot in a jet plane is not relevant, since on many planets machine guns simply won't fire (maybe it will be a plasmagun or a beam gun or an electric one?).

Well, I would also like to say that you would not be angry, if you want your unit to get into the game, then look for those who will support your idea, and also support the ideas of others with your notes, it is quite possible that what you propose has already been proposed or it is in the game at all. since there are already quite a few of them in the game and for new ones you need to draw an image and make json, as well as make statistics acceptable for balance what the running volunteers do mostly, I think if you tried to do them, the promotion of these units would be very successful.

[ZakTheBuilder1]

It wasnt about if i wanted the thing in game, I do but the real version would be modified to be able to travel to different planets.

The arguement was about how the thing functions and its abilities anyway
The craft would be different from all the others based on its shape and also the admin said that humans focus on missiles and rockets propelled stuff
and a bullet is pretty much a tiny rocket, but if there is a way for it to be a plasma minigun that has burst only not full auto that would be fine.
Its sci fi but I dont know how plasma is with gravity soo theres problems everywhere like maybe the jets should be rockets because jets need air to function but idk if you have any suggestions on how this vehicle could "work" go ahead.