Sacrifice killer spell rebalancing

[Shark guy 35]

I have try using the mummy sacrifice killer spell, and it doesn't seem to do anything but kill the mummy.

[Huttensohn]

my experience, too

[Savra]

What was it not working on?

The spell seems to work as it does 25% damage to the target at the cost of the casters life.

[Shark guy 35]

Ok, it did that after some testing. It doesn't seem like it has much of an effect, however.

[Savra]

It could get bonuses to certain units I guess, but that's up to @makazuwr32, and @Alexander82.

[Stratego (dev)]

bonus? sorry i dont understand clearly.
so is it working?
is there a bug? if so what is the bug?

[Savra]

It works, just the issue is, it might need to get a damage buff as with the recent update, they don't do much for a 3 turn unit, that can sacrifice itself.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok, you can upscale its effect if it was not upscaled yet.
is should get x3 value.

[Savra]

It does 25% damage, if I recall, its supposed to have something to do with the mummy's health.

I will first wait to see what Alex and maka have to say about it though as they are the ones balancing.

[Stratego (dev)]

i think there is no question, does it deal the requested 25% or not? if not we can fix it.

[Savra]

I just checked, yes it does, but it's based on the enemies hp.

So if a enemy has 200 hp, the unit should only be doing 50 damage, so it works. But I don't know if it is as effective as it was before the upscaling update.

[Anchar]

Is it so effective? Sacrificing a fighter in 3 turns in order to take away 50 lives cannot be effective, he must either kill or, in extreme cases, do 75% damage, or he should not die, but lose life in the same percentage.

[Savra]

At one point it did kill, but they changed it to this as a unit with, curse, fear, slowing, and a ranged assassination ability for 3 turns was a bit much.

That's why I suggested we use bonuses to add to the effect, so on top of the 25% of the targets health being used as damage, it would also be multiplied by the bonuses the ability also has.

Of course though, there is also the point of the ability getting upgraded too, since abilities like that will eventually be getting upgraded version's too.

Which means that the other 2 upgraded version's will likely be:
Sacrifice Killer 2: 50% targets hp
Sacrifice Killer 3: 75% targets hp.

[Stratego (dev)]

i am confuised a little:
i think this topic is about reporting that this spell is not working
"I have try using the mummy sacrifice killer spell, and it doesn't seem to do anything but kill the mummy."

if there is no bug anymore, so it is working as intended: than this topic needs "FIXED" or "ANSWERED" and any new suggestion about sacrifice killer should be in a new topic and discussed with Alex.

ok?

or am i miksunderstanding and we still have a wrong way of working (considering intended way of working?)

[Savra]

Ya, I think we went a little off topic here.

The spell works, and does the intended damage so the problem is fixed.

[makazuwr32]

several points:
1. It COMPLETELY ignores spell resist and is ranged ability.
2. Right now this is only ability that deals % based damage and is ridicilously useful on costly and tanky units like ettins, olog hais and so on.
3. Due to the fact how many ways undeads gain free production it is fine for them to sacrifice some of their 3 turn cost units in order to weaken/kill tough enemy.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok...
but any of these you write are bugs?
or simply suggestions to change?
(the first seems like a change request (to add spell resistance), but other 2 is like a statement so does not points out wrong working, or what was the suggested change? thanks!)

[Anchar]

The skill works correctly, there is more likely a dispute about how to change it, since it is rather weak:
1) Yes, it has a range, but only 5, and if you study all (rather expensive) improvements, then a maximum of 7, with such distances the mummy may simply not reach ettin and die by archers.
2) With 25%, this ability is rather ridiculously useless, since the damage caused is easily healed by healers, especially considering the 100% healing of orc giants and the regeneration of trolls (the only fighters on whom such a sacrifice is justified).
3) Yes, it is possible, when filling the limit of troops, it would be useful to sacrifice them, but I do not think that someone will change the mummy for a skeleton of a swordsman or a skeleton of a horseman of stage 1-2 (or other random garbage) while you are already at 3 stages + lead them across the map to the front line (since the graves are usually deep in the rear).

In my opinion, the ability is very dubious, but in general it makes no difference to me, the mummy is only needed to freeze opponents, no one will sacrifice a fighter with a freeze (for 3 turns) for 25% damage.

[makazuwr32]

we will think with savra about that later.

[makazuwr32]

My personal proposal about Sacrificed killer spell buffing:
1. This spell when used must apply debuff that reduces heal rate of affected unit by -0.75 or -75% (thus only 25% of original healing spells' effectiveness will be applied to unit under this effect), duration of effect - 2 turns, disenchantable. Name can be "Touch of death". Possible targets - living units;
2. Increase range of ability by +2;
3. I want to give mummies later different spell list and because i want to move this spell to Banshee unit (she will become affected by upgrades to increase range and such, discussable);
4. Make % based damage to be affected by caster's spell power - 5-7% x Spell Power of caster. Banshee/mummy will have base spell power 4 and it is increasable up to 6 thus total damage will be 20-28% at base and 30-42% when maxed. Actual base % per spell power is still under discussion (i would prefer 7).

[Savra]

I would prefer skeleton mage getting this instead of banshee.

[makazuwr32]

skeleton mage is too cheap + can be raised from corpse which is why i do not want to give this spell to that unit unless we will nerf it.

[Savra]

It's either that or I bring back rotten and give it to the skeleton mage.

We could also give this to monster mages.

[makazuwr32]

Rotten as offencive ability for skeleton mages was already agreed with alex thus it is fine.

Alas we wanted to update it by dealing 2 + spell power instant damage and applying rotten effect that deals 2 damage/turn (self stackable). Ability affects only living units. Ofc due to upscale it must do more damage thus i'd say it should do 4x spell power damage and effect should deal 6 damage/turn.

[makazuwr32]

Moved to balancing forum.

[Stratego (dev)]

is it still a problem?
if so others please confirm it is a problem.
thanks!