Too powerful an undead scout.

[Anchar]

Too powerful an undead scout.

The undead scout has too many attacks of 20x2=40, against the background of his strongest rivals: 15x2=30 for the orc scout, 12x2=24 for Human, as well as an ability that gives a total of 44 damage and +1 to speed without wasting action, which leads to faster captures of centers, as well as to spam along with zombies at the beginning of the game. Also, a similar ability of human works differently without adding damage in any way (no matter how you turn it will be 24).

Makazuvr explains this measure by the fact that Human has healers giving 2 hits (which makes a human scout only equal in strength), and orcs have a shaman with an amplification, while the undead have no one, however, on 50/50 maps this may not work or become very costly. It is also possible to make a speedrun technologies by increasing the damage, but this will also require extra costs.

As a result, the undead can simply crush the number of scouts at the beginning of the game.

My suggestions: Reduce the attack of scouts or reduce the time of buffs effects so that the scout could not have time to collide under his actions at the start.

Makazuvr also promised me that their ability with +1 to speed will be locked behind the technology, I hope that at least this will be done in a short time.

[Laxus]

orc scouts have 15*2 = 30 attack, however that being said i do agree that 40 damage is a bit too much for headless horseman. I think reducing it to 18*2 = 36 is fine especially since undead do not have any caster that can help scouts in early game

[makazuwr32]

Too powerful an undead scout.

The undead scout has too many attacks of 20x2=40, against the background of his strongest rivals: 15x1=15 for the orc scout, 12x2=24 for Human, as well as an ability that gives a total of 44 damage and +1 to speed without wasting action, which leads to faster captures of centers, as well as to spam along with zombies at the beginning of the game. Also, a similar ability of human works differently without adding damage in any way (no matter how you turn it will be 24).

Makazuvr explains this measure by the fact that Human has healers giving 2 hits (which makes a human scout only equal in strength), and orcs have a shaman with an amplification, while the undead have no one, however, on 50/50 maps this may not work or become very costly. It is also possible to make a speedrun technologies by increasing the damage, but this will also require extra costs.

As a result, the undead can simply crush the number of scouts at the beginning of the game.

My suggestions: Reduce the attack of scouts or reduce the time of buffs effects so that the scout could not have time to collide under his actions at the start.

Makazuvr also promised me that their ability with +1 to speed will be locked behind the technology, I hope that at least this will be done in a short time.

You forgot dwarven light cav who has under rune of charging 24 attack x2 times at base and 6 speed.
Elven unicorn rider also now poses significant treat to enemy — she has 14 attack at base, 2 actions, 30% dodge counter and 64 hp which is very good for elves.

1. Humans, orcs, scalefolks, dwarves have 2-3 turn cost casters who can help their cav early game, while udeads don't.
2. Elves, orcs and scalefolks have 3 turn cost lancers who are more than perfect counters for headless horsemen. Undeads do not have such.
3. Elves and scalefolks have cheap summons who help a lot. Undeads do not have such (flesh golems require quite a bit of time to get and they have much lesser speed).
4. Humans, elves, dwarves, scalefolks, orcs have means to increase basic power of their scout units through the game — undeads don't.
5. All scouts have 2 actions now. So no changes to headless horseman in this case will be made.
6. Dwarves, scalefolks, orcs and elves are laughing over this scout due to points 1-5. Especially since this unit is one of the thinnest among light cav units — even elves will live longer due to upgrades.

So giving them such advantage is fair. Especially since at mid-late game this unit will still have its basic attack value while humans will get 24x2, orcs will get 27x2, elves will get 32x2, dwarves will get 32x2, scalefolks will get 30x2. I do not take here any auras or buffs since if we will take into account them as well than situation will be even more grim for this unit — 20x2 vs 45x3 of humans, 69x3 of orcs, 45x2 of scalefolks or 46x3 + power range 1 of dwarves.

As for ability — savra forgot to lock it so for now locking it behind skeletal power tech will be good enough. Might also lock it behind arcane power tech as well (so 2 techs will be required to unlock it — both skeletal power and arcane power tier 1). It also must not be action-free.

[Anchar]

The dwarf rune, unlike the undead ability, is locked behind technology.
I haven't played elves for a long time, what you listed is it all given at the beginning or upgrades?
1. I answered in the first post that this is not always effective, in the case of Human, it only gives equality in battle with an undead scout.
2.Spearmen may be there, but undead scouts can just stand at a distance and strike first in 2 at such a spearman + they can be supported by zombies. Also, this spearman will not be able to participate in the effective capture of centers if the map is not 100% forest, unlike the undead scout.
3. Calls are generally a separate topic, the fact that the meat golem is slower does not cancel its huge HP, attacks, walking on water, as well as long-range magical support of the necromancer.
4. Yes, there is, but at the beginning of the game the undead can smother with spam, so you will fight 30% of the territories against 70% of the territories and centers of the undead.
5. Then reduce the damage.
6 Keyword thanks to upgrades, while you spend production on upgrades and technologies, you will lose the capture of centers, as a result of which more undead troops will fall on your fighter with upgrades, and this considering that in the future there will be a magical annulment, which in theory should strengthen the late game of the undead.

Most of what you said was about the late game, and not as I wrote about the initial spam.

[Anchar]

If you are so worried about the late game, can you make the undead scout 3 stages like everyone else, and not break the initial game?

[Savra]

I think we could simply just add a dark forge for undeads, and that will help even things out a bit.

The only units it will be effecting anyway are:
Headless horseman
Wights
Apocalyptic knights
Phantoms

And that's it out of the ones we have currently, plus we were going to expand on the wight's anyway.

This way we can nerf the headless horseman without it losing effectiveness in late game either.

Technically, we're supposed to be working on buildings update anyway, so this would, in this case, fall within what we're working on.

[makazuwr32]

I think we could simply just add a dark forge for undeads, and that will help even things out a bit.

The only units it will be effecting anyway are:
Headless horseman
Wights
Apocalyptic knights
Phantoms

And that's it out of the ones we have currently, plus we were going to expand on the wight's anyway.

This way we can nerf the headless horseman without it losing effectiveness in late game either.

Technically, we're supposed to be working on buildings update anyway, so this would, in this case, fall within what we're working on.

That will be fine for me.

Probably we will go for 3 tiers with 3/4/5 turns cost for next techs:
Attack (same as elves) — +2 per tier
Armor — +1/+1 armor and +3/+3/+4 hp per tier
Shield — +1/+1 armor and +3/+3/+4 hp per tier

And for 2 tiers with 5/7 turns cost for next techs:
Shooting — +1 range only
Throwing — +1 range and +1 attack

With this we can reduce attack of headless horseman down to 16 at base.

[makazuwr32]

Also @Savra we need a separate tech unlocking this ability of headless horseman.

[Savra]

Perhaps, we'll see after we add the dark forge, as by that it will be more on par with humans light cavalry, who don't need a tech for there charge ability.

[makazuwr32]

I do not want to give for this ability bonus attack based on current unit's attack. Not that we can do it properly anyway (only via giving xAttack times +1 attack effect).

Also humans have 3 tiers of light cav and require 3 tiers of that ability with corresponding increases of attack depending on tier while for this unit we can't give 3 tiers of this ability which is why we can't change bonus attack value.

So this ability either must be nerfed down to +10 attack if you want to use it at base or must be locked behind separate tech.