PRI#7 Warfel sub cost

[Stratego (dev)]

:
Total cost is 100 turns
Imperial sub total cost is 36 turns
For warfell researches you need construct special building - for imperial not.

Decision: decrease cost for warfell crystals especialy for not so important ones.

[Stratego (dev)]

makaw:

Warfell sub:
Yes it is more costly. It is intended.
Alas some cost decrease for crystal abilities unlocking techs is in plans.
Warfell sub in future also get few extra buffs:
1. 1st tier of warfell sub will be researchable without embassy in tc for 1 turn. For now it is planned to require writing but it might be changed so it will not require it for slightly higher cost. Tier 2 and 3 of unlocking warfell techs will still require writing and will be exclusive to embassy.
2. Some warfell units will be presented in tc as alternative to your base army.
Thus due to bigger variants to use for warfell along with making them available in tc they will not get any big changes to total cost.

[Stratego (dev)]

we need quick change:
"decrease cost for warfell crystals especialy for not so important ones"
anyone agaisnt this suggestion?
if not with what value?

[makazuwr32]

I am against it since all crystals must have equally same cost.

Alas i have in plans rebalance of warfell techs and such so if you want, @Stratego (dev), i can post it here for your implementation.

If in short than warfell will be divided into 3 tiers, 1st of which will be very cheap to unlock and will be available in tc.

After you will complete tier 1 factory of warfell some units from it also will become available to train in tc, and all will be available in big mega and mini mega.

Some techs and units will require tier 2 or 3 to unlock alas.

Should i post here full plan for them?

[Stratego (dev)]

i need a fix that is fast, if that is too time consuming i would go for changing crystal costs instead - later can be changed (even back) with the more complex change.

[makazuwr32]

Please DO NOT TOUCH COSTS OF CRYSTALS.
Some of them are too powerful to have even -1 turns cost.

Alas i think all that change i need for warfell will not be too time consuming anyway. Probably it will be possible to make everything required within at most 4 hours.

Here is whole plan:

Now about dividing warfell into 3 tiers:

1. Tiers cost — 1/4/7 turns, tier 1 tech is available to research at tc but still locked behind writing.
1.1. slight rebalance of techs cost: crystalline comprehencion down to 8/12 turns.

2. Techs redistribution between tiers:
2.1. Crystals: all crystals except azure, ember and crimson available on tier 1; azure, ember and crimson crystals available on tier 2;
2.2. Crystalline comprehencion tech tier 1 available on tier 2, tier 2 available on tier 3;
2.3. Crystalline perception tech tier 1 available on tier 2, tier 2 tech available on tier 3;

3. Units redistribution:
3.1. Tier 1 —all thess will be available in tc as well: swordman, spearman, archer, knight, lancer, mounted archer, shielder, hoplite, canis proelium; these will be still exclusive to warfell factories and both megas: Clarity, Courageous; Azure: swordsman, spearman, bowman, crossbowman.
3.2. Tier 2 — pegasus knight, pegasus ranger, gryphon knight, two handed swordsman, duelist, magi bellator, ironrod strikeman, ranger, rock scorpion, bolt scorpion, captain, flag carrier; Dauntless; Azure: ironrod strikeman, harpoonist, axeman.
3.3. Tier 3 — Arcane flamer, azure champion, warbringer.

Later to tier 2 and 3 will be added additionally siege of warfell, crystal dragon (tier 3), additional casters.

[Stratego (dev)]

4 hours?

i have about 15 minutes to quick-fix this one among the others

so i wil select then the not so powerful ones and decrease those costs than.
later can be changed in any direction.

[makazuwr32]

4 hours?

i have about 15 minutes to quick-fix this one among the others

so i wil select then the not so powerful ones and decrease those costs than.
later can be changed in any direction.

I think this change might take less.
I am calculating on my tries which is worst possible result.

For savra i think it will not take more than hour.

And please DO NOT CHANGE CRYSTALS. Even those which you think "are not op" actually are very powerful since their activation does not require actions cost for non-magi bellator units.

[Stratego (dev)]

@Jerryqian39 @Aral_Yaren

can you confirm it is a balance issue?

[Anchar]

No one has been using Warfellas for a long time, it seems to me that Makazuvr is the only one who knows the speedrun for some super-strong tactics. Otherwise, they are quite backward and dreary (because of their separate building with technology), if only because their archers have a maximum range of 7, unlike the starting Human and Imperials at a maximum of 9, their other ranged units have the same problem with maximum ranges.

[Anchar]

Moreover, some of the crystals lack a description.

[makazuwr32]

If warfell will become alternative to basic humans i doubt that anyone will consider them "weak".

Crystals descriptions — can you make ones if i provide info about them?

[Stratego (dev)]

this seems stucked
- can we get to a conclusion some way?
- if anyone has yet responed please ask him to.
- if i am wrong and here is a conclusion somewhere please summarize me

thanks!

[makazuwr32]

Please DO NOT TOUCH COSTS OF CRYSTALS.
Some of them are too powerful to have even -1 turns cost.

Alas i think all that change i need for warfell will not be too time consuming anyway. Probably it will be possible to make everything required within at most 4 hours.

Here is whole plan:

Now about dividing warfell into 3 tiers:

1. Tiers cost — 1/4/7 turns, tier 1 tech is available to research at tc but still locked behind writing.
1.1. slight rebalance of techs cost: crystalline comprehencion down to 8/12 turns.

2. Techs redistribution between tiers:
2.1. Crystals: all crystals except azure, ember and crimson available on tier 1; azure, ember and crimson crystals available on tier 2;
2.2. Crystalline comprehencion tech tier 1 available on tier 2, tier 2 available on tier 3;
2.3. Crystalline perception tech tier 1 available on tier 2, tier 2 tech available on tier 3;

3. Units redistribution:
3.1. Tier 1 —all thess will be available in tc as well: swordman, spearman, archer, knight, lancer, mounted archer, shielder, hoplite, canis proelium; these will be still exclusive to warfell factories and both megas: Clarity, Courageous; Azure: swordsman, spearman, bowman, crossbowman.
3.2. Tier 2 — pegasus knight, pegasus ranger, gryphon knight, two handed swordsman, duelist, magi bellator, ironrod strikeman, ranger, rock scorpion, bolt scorpion, captain, flag carrier; Dauntless; Azure: ironrod strikeman, harpoonist, axeman.
3.3. Tier 3 — Arcane flamer, azure champion, warbringer.

Later to tier 2 and 3 will be added additionally siege of warfell, crystal dragon (tier 3), additional casters.

Here is conclusion.
Apart from addition of 2 extra images everything else here is basically just changes to cost, how unit is locked and additional ways to train units from tier 1.

It maybe will require 1 hour instead of 10 minutes though.