Ud balancing discussions

MrLich
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by MrLich »

That seems plausible compared to getting a worker and ensuring its survival, the question is, will it be worth using strats like wagon rushing to get that extra sub, enemy can certainly play around it, and just use workers as far as possible from frontline, or in tc, also small note, does tc give 100%immunity to possession for units inside, or is it something else, i think its just too op how many effects and spells tc negate, like debuffs, dots, aoe spells gets less effective, overall i think tcs should be reworked when magic update comes
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

Tcs are fine to protect from debuffs and such alas they will not protect from auras in future.
Alas other buildings will not be able to remove debuffs or dot effects (with very-very-very-very feeeew exceptions, probably 1-2 buildings per race which are somewhat fragile).

As for that possession of worker — it is nice addition to your army but not a main scource of power.
Also this might work best on chaotic matches when multiple players fight with each other.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
MrLich
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by MrLich »

I mean whats the point of debuffs when you can just station your units in carriers and tcs,feel like ud just have too many debuffs, for how useless they are in storming tcs
MrLich
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by MrLich »

I think anti garrison debuffs might be a good idea, something that forces units out of tcs and towers,or just get rid of the most useless debuffs, and use the extra room for more units that have actual impact in offence
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

Well undeads WILL get anti-fortification debuffs indeed.
For example debuff aura that reduces actions/turn for units inside by -1.
Or special cloud aura that completely negates heal rate of tower (will not deal too high damage though).

That is one of possible options undies will get in future to help themselves storming enemy bases.

Tcs themselves are not being too hard to hold. Even for orcs.
Much bigger problem is dealing with all those buildings to get to tc.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
MrLich
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by MrLich »

Tcs are the key targets though, you cant destroy tc like tower, so as long as there are units inside, they will be immune to most debuffs, get small heal, or bigger one with priests, and most importantly, be hidden, so you never know what units are inside, its way better than just a tower or two
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

MrLich wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:30 pm be hidden, so you never know what units are inside
But undeads can sneak peek into tc to find who is inside.
Shades.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
MrLich
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:21 pm

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by MrLich »

Shades arent rly useful though, just hearing sounds of hurt units does better job overall, and you dont waste 2 turns of cooldown to maybe get Intel on whats inside tc, but most cases either get spotted by unit with sight, or just tanks in front, i think shades are just a dead slot
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

We will reduce cost of shade in future to 1 turn alas.
Also you would have an alternative way to obtain shades as well.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

Stats update for apocalyptic knights is ready.
My work is over for now, rest is up to savra.

Must admit that in some cases i might have gone too overboard and made some units too op (especially because on these guys we will test some options which we will use later in magic update). Not even comparable to flesh golems — these pussies will run in fear when they will meet some of new apocalyptic kngihts. And not only they...

Blood knight will become one of the most awesome units of undeads. Especially its buff in aoe 3 (alas with cost of self sacrifice along with 7 skeletons).

Death knight will be first caster who will get a damaging spell with range 11. And ofc the mintioned many times unholy shield.

Hellfire knight, hellstorm knight and frost knight all will get improved damaging abilities.

Plague knight will become very dangeroues for enemy alive units due to aura, poison spreading (he can cast poison weapon effect onto allied units as well, might even make it action-free later) and disease cloud + disease breath abilities to deal extra damage.

Cursed knight will become much better support caster who can debuff enemy's attack into oblivion. Hell of lain by sacrifice is also given to it.

Dark knight will become best for now attack debuffer unit. -20 attack to enemies when maxed and under self buff (other stats of aura were not changed).
Also gets more abilities as well — shroud of darkness (target unit gains extra dodge melee and ranged but also extra miss chance), emissary of darkness (self buff), dense darkness (minor dot and complete loss of sight: -15 sight range).

Fel knight will get least amount of buffs but still will get few.

Thorn knight will become pain in the ass to get through it. Sometimes even literally — due to first strike and double damage on counter.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Aral_Yaren
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Aral_Yaren »

A number of non-siege ud units doesn't have eat corpse ability in case of healing in frontlines far from blood spring or even beside butcher, mainly for phantom soldiers. Other races can heal all their non-siege unit, however strong the unit is.

Or is there another way for this that I don't know?
There shall be times... when people across the world shall live in peace and harmony through their various diversities. I shall wait for it, even though it costs my life...
Jerryqian39
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Jerryqian39 »

phanton unit do not need heal they will be at full health every turn
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

Cursed knight can sacrifice an ally to heal another unit for amount of remaining hp of sacrifice.
Alas sacrifice dies for good without any traces remaining so you can't get corpse from it or any other drops (for example if you will use for sacrifice a hydra it will also die for good and won't drop less headed version).
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Aral_Yaren
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Aral_Yaren »

1. Newly trained Necromancer and Lich have their soul summoning postponed by cooldown, eventhough they didn't use it yet.

2. Necromancer doesn't benefit from both ud arcane and druidic range and power (at least not described in the blue note bracket below the tech explanation).
There shall be times... when people across the world shall live in peace and harmony through their various diversities. I shall wait for it, even though it costs my life...
Jerryqian39
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Jerryqian39 »

For number 2 it is a bug we will fix it Nero will be affected by arcane range
User avatar
Puppeteer12
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:42 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Puppeteer12 »

Jerryqian39 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:51 am For number 2 it is a bug we will fix it Nero will be affected by arcane range
I don't think you're part of the dev team but okay
A master of puppetry and manipulation, working from the shadows.
Jerryqian39
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Jerryqian39 »

I am in the development discord serve through I think that counts.are there another dev group I do not know

Abe the Nero thing is according to makazuer
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

Jerryqian39 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:51 am For number 2 it is a bug we will fix it Nero will be affected by arcane range
Just as he said.
Druidic range though affects only elves.
Undead arcane range will affect necromancer later, when we will bugfix him.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

Aral_Yaren wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:49 am 1. Newly trained Necromancer and Lich have their soul summoning postponed by cooldown, eventhough they didn't use it yet.
For now it will be set this way.
Later we will rebalance this ability a bit. Alas initial cooldown probably will still be presented and we will only tweak length of cd.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Aral_Yaren
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Aral_Yaren »

1. Ud mages (bone up to gold) cannot walk in forest tile.

2. Why Zombie Butchery classed as mechanical, so that they also cannot walk in forest tile? As faction who need to find corpse and sacrifice action just to heal, this hinders Zombie Butchery verstatility to drop rotten, mainly in maps with many forest tile.

3. The same reason for Bone Tower and Spirit Tower, which can garrison but no healing property (emphasis to Spirit Tower, which can only delay vanishing afaik).

4. In some of my SP, reanimated ud unit cannot be upgraded (in silver and golden) along with originally trained ud unit from base, eventhough they were reanimated far before both silver and golden upgrade completed.
There shall be times... when people across the world shall live in peace and harmony through their various diversities. I shall wait for it, even though it costs my life...
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

Spirit tower will become later more useful since we are going to add later lots of units with vanishing for ud. At least 15 more units with vanishing will be added (with high probability for this number to be tripled). Some of them would be able to rival in strength even maxed ettins under all possible orcish castable buffs.
So no changes for it for sure.
Bone tower will not have any heal rate but we will give to bone golem carry capacity (alas along with limiting carriable units to foot non-giant, non-mechanicalunits only, so no wagons stacking in them).
Later also there will be added tech that will allow for golem to revert back into tower (alas this tower will keep vanishing, unlike original one).

.

Zombie butcher is mechanical due to that cart with meat. Later alas it will get speed 1 in forest.
Also it will get range 2 for rotten meat summoning and cost reduction in upcoming update.

Alas... Normal zombies now also will drop rotten meat on death.

.

Skeleton mages not being able to move through forest tiles is a bug. Will be fixed.

.

Hm. About upgrading skeletons — if you have any skeletons of tier 1 when you upgrade to golden skeletons they will be unaffected.
Every other part will be looked to find the problem later.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Puppeteer12
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:42 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Puppeteer12 »

Jerryqian39 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:41 am I am in the development discord serve through I think that counts.are there another dev group I do not know

Abe the Nero thing is according to makazuer
How did you get in? I couldn't find any link to the aof discord on branch sever links channel.
A master of puppetry and manipulation, working from the shadows.
Jerryqian39
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Jerryqian39 »

https://discord.gg/wCw7YXtK3S
here is the player serve for dev serve you need to ask
User avatar
Aral_Yaren
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Aral_Yaren »

1. How the ability power upgrade work for ud casters, like lich, necromancer and mummy?

2. Is it viable if uds eat corpse don't take action?
There shall be times... when people across the world shall live in peace and harmony through their various diversities. I shall wait for it, even though it costs my life...
User avatar
Puss_in_Boots
Posts: 3206
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Puss_in_Boots »

1. Most ud casters are affected by arcane range and arcane power, though arcane range is more useful and affects more abilities. Arcane power I believe increases damage of magic attacks.

Mummies are the only caster affected by not arcane, but divine tree. They only have debuffs so divine power is a waste I believe.

You may want to double check because I'm not too sure.

2. ud is hard to heal, I don't think that ability should take action.

It's not very possible to surround an undead unit with corpses unless you invested alot in graveyards or gravediggers, or for some reason enemy living are really easy to die around it, and besides, for each corpse consumed you lose a potential unit you don't raise.

TC and blood fountain can provide healing instead.
OLÉ
Jerryqian39
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Jerryqian39 »

from what i know for ud knight will be affect by ablity power alot.i think most of their spell damage are scale with abilty power the more ability power they have the more damage they do.a sort like fel knight ability
there might be some more thing in makazwer's brain
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

In future indeed all apocalyptic knights will have at least 1 ability thta is affected by spell power.

But for others... Well for everyone else with exception of warfell, draconians, fel knight (all apocalypse knights in future) spell power is not required.
For kobold witch doctor and elven druid spell power itself is not required as well but techs to increase it for these 2 units also provide extra heal rate.

As for consume corpse:
Reason for that ability to require for usage an action is more simple than you think — due to technical problems if we do not set it you can infinitely consume corpses without corpses presented nearby.

In future alas we do plan to enhance consume corpse ability. Probably it will restore full hp for skeletons and zombies and less for other units.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
Jerryqian39
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Jerryqian39 »

what about wrecking ball treatment
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by makazuwr32 »

What about it?
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
Jerryqian39
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:47 am

Re: Ud balancing discussions

Post by Jerryqian39 »

When wrecking ball eat corpse it do to cost action
Post Reply

Return to “Balancing discussions”