Orcs Balancing Discussion

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Anchar
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Anchar » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:52 pm

What about his counterattack? Will she not become like foot spearmen?

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makazuwr32
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:57 pm

About counter attack - for now it will work same way as normal lancers of other race.
Later i want to make for all lancers to make their bonuses appliable only on attack and not oon counters.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Savra
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Savra » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:42 pm

Actually, I think a hyena would be fitting for this unit.


Anyway, we could apply 0% resistance for all summons, that should be fine.

As for elf druid, he has cost 4, not 6. Also the wood shaper disables a units movement with entangle, the druid will eventually get this, Undead's actually have Skeleton mages who can disenchant units as well.

Also, since the orc dragons are flying, they will still have bonuses against them.

As for bonuses against cavalry with mounted cavalry:

Land cavalry will get 100% damage against land, non giant cav, 50% against flying, giant, and aquatic cavalry.

Giant Lancers will have 100% bonus to flying and land cavalry, 50% aquatic.

Flying will have 100% bonus to flying, land cavalry. 50% to aquatic.

Aquatic cavalry will have 100% against aquatic cavalry, 50% against flying, land, and giants.

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Savra
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Savra » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:46 pm

Basically all races will get an expansion to their flying cavalry, for orcs I plan a troll wyvern rider (similar to drake rider but without the fire), and an orc fury rider (similar to gryphon rider but without the abilities).

Elves have a lot of eagle riders coming for them.

Undead's will be getting undead variants of flyers similar to their ground cavalry, plus the gargoyles that you made anchar.

Dwarves will get chrysoars and mainly mechanical flying units.

Scaledfolks will mainly have Saurians.

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Savra
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Savra » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:49 pm

About the goblin mounts, maybe we can swap the Goblin mounted archers mount with the lancer so goblin archer has the hyena mount (hyenas are quite cowardly), while the lancer will have the cheetah mount (more faster).

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makazuwr32
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:56 pm

Savra wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:49 pm
About the goblin mounts, maybe we can swap the Goblin mounted archers mount with the lancer so goblin archer has the hyena mount (hyenas are quite cowardly), while the lancer will have the cheetah mount (more faster).
Agreed on this one.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader

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Savra
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Savra » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:13 pm

Btw, about goblin cannon fodder, what I meant was that yes, I agree on it mostly, BUT, I would like to keep it's 100% accuracy because of the trouble you have to go through to get the thing.

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Savra
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Savra » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:13 pm

So move reduction and the other thing I'm in agreement on.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:52 pm

Good. I am fine with accuracy kept as perfect one. Fhat was one of options.

On next week i will look through topic and summarize accepted changes and under discussion changes.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader

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Savra
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Savra » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:04 pm

I would like some topics like this opened for all races though so I know what to change for each one when I get to rebalancing things. Not just for orcs.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:15 pm

A bit later i will work on them. Meanwhile you can work on bonuses, runes and siege of dwarves (i will make stats soon).
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader

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Anchar
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Anchar » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:43 am

Savra wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:42 pm
Actually, I think a hyena would be fitting for this unit.


Anyway, we could apply 0% resistance for all summons, that should be fine.

As for elf druid, he has cost 4, not 6. Also the wood shaper disables a units movement with entangle, the druid will eventually get this, Undead's actually have Skeleton mages who can disenchant units as well.

Also, since the orc dragons are flying, they will still have bonuses against them.

As for bonuses against cavalry with mounted cavalry:

Land cavalry will get 100% damage against land, non giant cav, 50% against flying, giant, and aquatic cavalry.

Giant Lancers will have 100% bonus to flying and land cavalry, 50% aquatic.

Flying will have 100% bonus to flying, land cavalry. 50% to aquatic.

Aquatic cavalry will have 100% against aquatic cavalry, 50% against flying, land, and giants.
By elven druid for 6 turns, I meant the tree shaper. Forgot about the skeletons of magicians.

As for the bonuses, I once wrote to Alexander that it is illogical that ground troops can give some kind of damage to the flying ones, all the more illogical that some lancer will be able to reach a pegasus flying in the sky and cause double damage, all the more, dragons and armored airships also belong to flying ones. I have always believed that dragons are especially strong creatures, however in this game they are easily killed by cheap archers and spearmen (horsemen), and now also lancers and ordinary cavalrymen, I think that the bonus against flying is only lacking for a guy with a stick in 1 move.

Also wondering what the giant cavalry means? If these are some trolls on a wyvern, then I hope they will cost like manticores for 12 turns and have a speed of 3 and will also be locked behind a bunch of technologies. I always thought that trolls are stupid creatures at the animal level and a troll on a wyvern sounds like a wyvern on a troll.

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Savra
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by Savra » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:03 pm

Trolls on wyverns will cost the same as drake knights, but they're not giants and vulnerable to fire.

Giant cav is reference to things like wooly rhinos, mammoth's, elephants, etc.

I don't think we have any giant flying cav suggested.

Also the bonuses issue will be fixed when I finish up on bonuses for everyone, however those will be set for every unit, regardless.

The part about trolls being rather stupid isn't actually accurate as a troll has more intelligence then that of an orc, in game, not all trolls are giants, only the big one's who will be locked behind a tech first, the small ones like headhunters and them will remain without tech requirements.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Orcs Balancing Discussion

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun May 30, 2021 4:13 am

After some thoughts I personally want next 2 changes for orcs:

1. Move elite/master cavalry and elite/master giants tech to orc pit (exclusively, they will not be avalilable anymore in orc/goblin tents and monster caves);
2. Add elite/master infantry tech (will be required to level up foot non-giant horde units — goblins, orcs, trolls, minotaurs, savages and uruks), cost 4/6 turns (same as elite/master cavalry or giants), researchable at orc pit.

This will make orcs on smallest maps a bit less op since they won't be able to level up their orc or goblin army in 6 turns and rush over enemy.
They will require at least 2 buildings to level up — orc pit and corresponding racial building which will slow down their development a bit. On small maps (2 tcs only per player) this probably will be most feelable when humans while having researched for example armor tech and infantry tech still require 2+4 turns to level up their foot melee units (sword ans shield tech) while orcs will have already tier 2 orcs or goblins.

On other hand this also will make things for orcs easier as well since they will not require monster cave to level up their leader units anymore.

@Stratego (dev) i hope you will suppprt this idea of mine.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader

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