Forlorn Hope

[Squirrel5555]

These men volunteered to join special units which were sent on suicide missions, for example, being the first men to charge through a breach while assaulting a defensive position.

I was thinking about how this could be implemented... maybe they are this game's version of berserkers? Usually weak stats, but have a short ability to gain massive damage stats.

And maybe allow a unit (maybe a general) to buy these units with valuables(kind of like condotierro). This is because many men decided to volunteer for these suicide missions, with the promise if they survived and succeeded they would get instant promotions and massive pay.

[L4cus]

really interesting!
u have a link?
also, a concept image would be cool

[Gral.Sturnn]

problem is that any soldier could make part of the "frolom hope" detachment there was really never a dedicated combat unit for this

[Squirrel5555]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forlorn_h ... 20children').

Here is the wiki link

Well, they would be infantry, so maybe some regular guys and one with a blade out or something? I don't really know what I can do about the art to make it unique, but I thought I would put this idea out here for now

[Gral.Sturnn]

its intersting but thats the problem there was never special equipment or armor

[Squirrel5555]

Most soldiers in medieval times didn't have any "standard" equipment or weapons, so I don't think it is a massive problem. We just need to think of a semi-unique idea and commit to it

[phoenixffyrnig]

I been pondering on this - I think it's a great idea, but hard to distill into an exact unit. Maybe we should work backwards and work out what it should do before deciding what it should be.

I like Squirrel's idea of berserk style approach - but yes, a short term effect to reflect their do or die attitude.
In this state, I think +1 speed (it is a mad charge after all)
+1 pierce armour (a moving target is harder to hit)
Some sort of hefty attack boost
Possibly a legion training style bonus for having their homies either side of them...?

Too many effects...? I dunno, just throwing ideas around. No idea on stats yet - not really my strong point.

I think an important point is (if acting like berserker) will they be able to convert, move, AND attack in the same turn (this would suit the unit best imo) or would converting into "charge" state count as it's action?

[Squirrel5555]

Interesting ideas @phoenixffyrnig!

Okay, so how about:
Their normal form is quite weak stat wise but their transformation gives them +1 speed, a large attack boost, but lowers their defensive stats significantly (to simulate their mad charge into enemy lines). Basically they will rely on their surprise factor of speed and power to do a lot of damage at first, but are easily killed the very next turn. Their conversion shouldn't count as an action so that they get to surprise the enemy the same turn, but they shouldn't be able to transform back.

Legion bonus, not sure about that. It seems much more accurate to put that on the Napoleonic infantry, who fought in very organised ranks. Maybe there should be a tech for that, for other infantry units!

What do you think guys?

[phoenixffyrnig]

Okay, so how about:
Their normal form is quite weak stat wise but their transformation gives them +1 speed, a large attack boost, but lowers their defensive stats significantly (to simulate their mad charge into enemy lines). Basically they will rely on their surprise factor of speed and power to do a lot of damage at first, but are easily killed the very next turn. Their conversion shouldn't count as an action so that they get to surprise the enemy the same turn, but they shouldn't be able to transform back.

Yes, I'm good with all of this
- weak normal stats - yes, they should be a specialised unit, not multi purpose.
- shouldn't be able to transform back - yes, it's a one-shot job, glory or death

My mention of legion training was poorly explained, but yes you're quite right, it is not fitting. I was wrongly thinking of an attack bonus to simulate the morale boost of having others by your side - but forgot that one unit does not necessarily represent one poor bogger by himself - don't tell Endru, I promise I won't do it again

HP in charge state should be balanced so his death isn't a foregone conclusion, but relatively easy to do yes, I agree.

Raises the question, what happens afterwards if he survives...does he revert back to weakened state, or keep only some of the stat boosts to reflect his promotion, but can no longer charge again?

[Squirrel5555]

shhh guys, no one tell Endru, maybe he doesn't check AOD forums anyway

Yeah my concern was what would happen if he survived... Well, I guess it could wear off within a few turns, making the unit turn back into relatively weak infantry. Not sure though. He could just stay in the "attack" state until death, but really I am not sure
It would be cool to in some way reflect the promotion if they survived, but that could lead to people building these units just to transform them, keep them out of fighting and get a stronger unit out of it for free, so maybe not.

[phoenixffyrnig]

It would be cool to in some way reflect the promotion if they survived, but that could lead to people building these units just to transform them, keep them out of fighting and get a stronger unit out of it for free, so maybe not.

Ah yeah, didn't think about that. Wonder if it would be possible to veteran them like the AoS highlander, +1 hp +1attack, so they at least get something, but not enough to make it worthwhile exploiting if you factor in "charge" mode duration and cool down plus their weakish stats to begin with.

Or maybe just give them a cool hat