version 1.157

[Stratego (dev)]

version 1.156 is published

[Stratego (dev)]

big update from Endru! thanks!
uos already.



New buildings:
Roman Castrum - mega building of romans.

Posthouse - cavalry and chariots garrisoned get a boost in speed. It can also heal them.

Ger Tergen Yurt - factory of steppe culture. Can be moved.

New units:
Viking Entrant/Raider/Warrior - cheap infantry, perfect for quick raids.

Vexilarius - foot unit to bring roman bonuses.

Physician - roman healer.

Gallic Cavalry - ancient heavy cavalry mercenary unit.

Kern - celtic skirmisher unit.

Cuman Horse Archer - light mounted archers of the steppes.

Mongol Lancer - lancers of the steppes.

Tent Protector - irregular infantry to use just in case.

Tengri Shaman - healer/buffer of steppe culture.

New upgrades:
Viking Archer (upgrade to Raider Archer) - increased hp, p.armor, attack, ability power and range.

Ace Light Cavary - overall upgrade.

Elite Raider - unique to steppe.

New techs:
Battlements - +1 range to ranged non-artillery fortifications.

Advanced legion command - wider aura range and +2 to attack and armors. Also increases ability range and power +1.

Advanced missile tactics - wider aura range and +2 range instead.

Sword mastery (ability) - increases melee ability damage.

Ranged damage (ability) - increases ranged ability damage.

Ranged reach (ability) - increases ranged ability range.

Balanced throwing weapons (ability) - increases melee throwing ability range.

Map editor only techs: Archery (ability) 1 and 2, Ability Range 1, 2 and 3, Persuasion 2 and 3.

Graphics:Full palisade join graphics.
Change:War Elephants and Persian War Elephants now have trample damage based on attack, being 70% of it.
Change:Non-artillery fortifications (except guard tower) range decreased by 1. This includes: castle, fort, fortress, shooting tower, crossbow tower and longbow tower. Crossbow tower is getting added bonus vs medium and heavy infantry +22.5%.
Change:Ballistraria now also requires Battlements.
Change:Shuriken damage is now decreased by ranged armor, instead of normal.
Change:Inquisitor cost 9->8, actions 2->3, ability range 5->6, ability chance 40%->60%.
Change:Newly build Monasteries have Holy Mission and Divine Right Auras.
Change:Pricier Crusade Call is available in Monastery too.
Change:Teutons are also available in Priory.
Change:Crusade Crossbowmen HP 18->22, armors 1/0->1/1, attack 7->8.
Change:Legion Missile Tactics cost 5->4.
Change:Legion Training cost 5->4.
Change:Skirmisher line bonuses unified to: +25% vs mounted, +70% vs shooters, +125% vs shooters mounted, +400% vs elephant shooters.
Change:Removed from TC: Shield knights, Longbowmen.
Change:Both hussar lines are available in Veche Izba now. Winged Hussar upgrade - exclusively.
Change:Flailmen hp 16->19, attack 15->12, elite hp 21->23, attack 16->14. Both have Shield Bearer category added.
Change:Celtic Warriors bonuses changed to: +50% vs [Melee][Light Infantry], +60% vs [Melee][Medium Infantry], [Melee][Irregular Infantry], +75% vs [Melee][Heavy Infantry].
Change:Herbalist cannot cast Weakening Poison any longer. Research moved to Ger Tergen Yurt. It has Strenghtening Herbs ability instead, which increases hp and healing affect.

Bugfix:Auxilary Knight didn't have [Horse] category.
Bugfix:Board Ship was not usable by Carrack.
Bugfix:Centurions, Equites, Companion cavalry, Persian Elephants were affected by blacksmith researches.
Map Change:Descent campaign - the quietus Units changed to make 3 stars possible

[b2198]

very nice changes and additions.

Change:Herbalist cannot cast Weakening Poison any longer. Research moved to Ger Tergen Yurt. It has Strenghtening Herbs ability instead, which increases hp and healing affect.

What does "increases hp" mean? They get more hp for the duration? They get a permanent hp boost?


And the +0.4 hp means +40% of unit's hp or literally +0.4 hp?


Also I see that 2 of Tengri Shaman abilities are steppe only. Is it still planned to make weakening poison steppe only too, and also do something similar to herbalist, bard and onmyoji?

[Endru1241]

very nice changes and additions.

Change:Herbalist cannot cast Weakening Poison any longer. Research moved to Ger Tergen Yurt. It has Strenghtening Herbs ability instead, which increases hp and healing affect.

What does "increases hp" mean? They get more hp for the duration? They get a permanent hp boost?


And the +0.4 hp means +40% of unit's hp or literally +0.4 hp?

You actually just found a mistake.
I wanted to add something to give percentage bonus to hp (right now thinking of +30%), but I wrote in json hpMax, while it should have been hpMaxPercent field.
Corrected

Also I see that 2 of Tengri Shaman abilities are steppe only. Is it still planned to make weakening poison steppe only too, and also do something similar to herbalist, bard and onmyoji?

That's the next step.
I hope I can finish it before publishing.

[DreJaDe]

Dude
Roman Physician is bugged.

So Bugged!!!

I can't even describe it properly!!!

He can make units go into each others place.
Basically like a garisson.

He also makes every unit he heals OP.
+3 to every value in stats.

As for the other
The legionnaire and pretorian is not available on Roman Castra.

Is this intentional? Cause there are also some units that I think shouldn't be there like the Rocket launcher. Or Cannon.

I just hope for not them to be removed cause I used a lot of gems already.

[Endru1241]

Hmm.
I honestly don't have anything like that.
Either back then with loaded assets, nor right now on pure dev game.

Anyway - if there is not any mistake - that probably means CHG_POWER_BY_ABILITY_ADD is sometimes bugged and should not be used.
My guess is that effectaffect applied was given +3 (physician ability power) to every possible parameter.

I can change effect to CHG_POWER_BY_ABILITY_MULTIPLY just to be sure.


Plus I added those roman units.

[DreJaDe]

There's another one.
His heal aura bases it's heal not on his ability power but on others.

Him having 3 AP heals himself by 4 and others without AP or default 1 will have 1.

As to garrison things. Part of the additional stats given by the heal is the carry capacity. That's why units can go inside the units it heals.

[b2198]

You actually just found a mistake.
I wanted to add something to give percentage bonus to hp (right now thinking of +30%), but I wrote in json hpMax, while it should have been hpMaxPercent field.
Corrected

Oh, nice then, but if it's a temporary 40% increase in max hp, what happens when it runs out in regards to current hp? Does it get decreased proportionally, stay the same or lose the entire amount?
Ex: if a unit that has 10 hp receives this buff (so now it has 14 hp), then takes 10 damage (so now it has 4 out of 14 hp), when it runs out will it have:

• 4/14 * 10 ~= 2.86 hp?
• 4 hp?
• 0 hp?

[Marine25]

Why the Saracen units became steppes units? I think they are not compatible with that uniform because mongol or steppe units wears a heavy armor specially the cavalries lancers and horse archers

[DreJaDe]

Viking upg are available even if supposed req are not met.

Though their requirement is the tech itself (the Bug)

3rd light cav upg is available even without the second one.

Winged hussar upg isn't available in stable?
If it's intentional, can the upg be reduced to 5? I mean, it requires 2 techs from two special factory to be used.

[Endru1241]

There's another one.
His heal aura bases it's heal not on his ability power but on others.

Him having 3 AP heals himself by 4 and others without AP or default 1 will have 1.

As to garrison things. Part of the additional stats given by the heal is the carry capacity. That's why units can go inside the units it heals.

Anyway - part of the same problem - adding to all possible parameters.

BTW. I can also experience that now.
Maybe I didn't test properly or it didn't happen in assets loaded from files.

[Endru1241]

Why the Saracen units became steppes units? I think they are not compatible with that uniform because mongol or steppe units wears a heavy armor specially the cavalries lancers and horse archers

Well - I gave a warning in original topic.
Real reason is that I lacked steppe units images.

And those fits perfectly to be steppe.
After all huge part of Turkic culture was nomadic most of the time.
And lived on the steppes.

I maybe only made a bummer by looking for a name for unit and deciding to use most famous mongolian lancer, while using image that looks like kipchak or cuman (turks).

As for steppe units wearing heavy armor.
They didn't.
When you compare to any western army of the same time - steppe units would be in general less armored.
True - they did have some special assault units, that was heavily armored, but general army were not.
Otherwise they wouldn't have any possibility to outrun, outmanouver and tire enemy cavalry.

Cuman horse archers were definitely light cavalry with not much armor, because Cumans also had separated heavy cavalry for assault.

[Endru1241]

Viking upg are available even if supposed req are not met.

Though their requirement is the tech itself (the Bug)

3rd light cav upg is available even without the second one.

Forgot to add 2nd tech to requirements of first. Fixed in the assets.

Winged hussar upg isn't available in stable?
If it's intentional, can the upg be reduced to 5? I mean, it requires 2 techs from two special factory to be used.

This is intentional and listed in changes.
Reach is good to have anyway, so I am not sure.

[Endru1241]

You actually just found a mistake.
I wanted to add something to give percentage bonus to hp (right now thinking of +30%), but I wrote in json hpMax, while it should have been hpMaxPercent field.
Corrected

Oh, nice then, but if it's a temporary 40% increase in max hp, what happens when it runs out in regards to current hp? Does it get decreased proportionally, stay the same or lose the entire amount?
Ex: if a unit that has 10 hp receives this buff (so now it has 14 hp), then takes 10 damage (so now it has 4 out of 14 hp), when it runs out will it have:

• 4/14 * 10 ~= 2.86 hp?
• 4 hp?
• 0 hp?

Now I think about 30%.

The idea was to have % boost in hp, which should be reversed (when effect expires) as far as I know to percentage of reversed maxHP, because that is the only logical thing to avoid bugs.

But it doesn't work - reported bug, but I am not sure if it will be fixed easily or I'll have to change the idea behind this.
Both parts work not like expected - maxHP is reversed to wrong values and current hp is decreased by constant number.

[Marine25]

Why the Saracen units became steppes units? I think they are not compatible with that uniform because mongol or steppe units wears a heavy armor specially the cavalries lancers and horse archers

Well - I gave a warning in original topic.
Real reason is that I lacked steppe units images.

And those fits perfectly to be steppe.
After all huge part of Turkic culture was nomadic most of the time.
And lived on the steppes.

I maybe only made a bummer by looking for a name for unit and deciding to use most famous mongolian lancer, while using image that looks like kipchak or cuman (turks).

As for steppe units wearing heavy armor.
They didn't.
When you compare to any western army of the same time - steppe units would be in general less armored.
True - they did have some special assault units, that was heavily armored, but general army were not.
Otherwise they wouldn't have any possibility to outrun, outmanouver and tire enemy cavalry.

Cuman horse archers were definitely light cavalry with not much armor, because Cumans also had separated heavy cavalry for assault.

Oh so if that is the case I will create steppe units to add and then I will also create another lancer and horse archer to change the image to make it perfect, because for me, those image should be added as a mamluks to give a crusaders Rivalry and that should be a arab or mamluk warriors

[Stratego (dev)]

some new changes by Endru:

Checked the palisades and made some corrections.

Also there was some bugs with this version, so not listed in changes.
New changes:

Graphics:New less wide cliff slopes.
Culture specific buffs:
- Herbalist Slowing Poison Weapon and Double Strike can only be used on [Slavic] units.
- Tengri Shaman Weakening Poison Weapon can only be used on [Steppe] units..
- Bard Hero Song, Battle Song and Adventure Song can only be used on [Nordic] units.
- Onmyoji Tell Fortune can only be used on [Japanese] units.
- Drummer Drums aura, Blacksmith Upgrade Weapon and Upgrade Armor cannot be used on (except) [Roman], [Japanese], [Nordic], [Celtic], [Slavic], [Steppe], [Primitive] units.
Bugfix: Some skins fixes.

The second one is about 69th cohort aux archer and pretorian - had to change graphic definition to 1x2.

uos 5

[b2198]

Nice again

Just some more questions:

• What about Herbalist's Poison Weapon and Herb Protection? Will still be available for all units?
• Isn't Strenghtening Herbs a bit too weak now that it doesn't increase hp, and considering it's her only unique ability with 3 range? Maybe increasing from +0.3 to +0.5 heal aff. and making Herb Protection affected by heal aff. could work better as a defensive combo?
• Northern Axe Throwers are both [Nordic] and [Slavic], won't that make them op in comparison to other units?
• Won't Tengri Shaman be too weak by having only 1 action, only 11hp and no [Heavy Clothed] category? Bard has 2, is more durable, and has stronger buffs (+1 range +1 speed is basically equivalent to +2 speed, and +2 vision vs +50% resistance would be slightly better, if not for the fact that it's 2 abilities vs 1, and battle song is on par with (and sometimes even better than) weakening poison... and let's not even talk about Hero Song in this comparison lol

On a side note: cheaper "castles" for romans and mobile factories for steppe will be nuts, can't wait to see all the ways these will be used in game =D

[b2198]

Also in regards to physician, it still heals based on the unit's ability power, not its own:

[Endru1241]

Also in regards to physician, it still heals based on the unit's ability power, not its own:

Only visual bug.
In reality the effect is correctly multiplied by ability power of physician.
But docs don't have any way to check ability power of a caster (pretty sure the same visual bug occurs for boarding hooks).

Nice again

Just some more questions:

• What about Herbalist's Poison Weapon and Herb Protection? Will still be available for all units?
• Isn't Strenghtening Herbs a bit too weak now that it doesn't increase hp, and considering it's her only unique ability with 3 range? Maybe increasing from +0.3 to +0.5 heal aff. and making Herb Protection affected by heal aff. could work better as a defensive combo?
• Northern Axe Throwers are both [Nordic] and [Slavic], won't that make them op in comparison to other units?
• Won't Tengri Shaman be too weak by having only 1 action, only 11hp and no [Heavy Clothed] category? Bard has 2, is more durable, and has stronger buffs (+1 range +1 speed is basically equivalent to +2 speed, and +2 vision vs +50% resistance would be slightly better, if not for the fact that it's 2 abilities vs 1, and battle song is on par with (and sometimes even better than) weakening poison... and let's not even talk about Hero Song in this comparison lol

On a side note: cheaper "castles" for romans and mobile factories for steppe will be nuts, can't wait to see all the ways these will be used in game =D

About tengri shaman: +1 range is evidently superior to +1 speed, but apart of that - valid points.
I only brought in suggested parameters and didn't think much of it - let's move the discussion to original topic:
viewtopic.php?f=374&t=12272

As for nordic and slavic category - as the unit is fortunately affected only by part of effects - maybe it's not so big of an issue.
What exact combination would be imbalanced?

Herb protection is general, kind of keeping the setting, that healing abilities should be.
For poison weapon - I thought to soon reuse it for other new supports.
Strengthening herbs are increasing max hp by +30%, but it's still buggy.
After already proposed code change it should be good.
But somehow it doesn't show at all, so it's another visual bug.
This text generation for doc effects will need some change.

[b2198]

Only visual bug.
In reality the effect is correctly multiplied by ability power of physician.
But docs don't have any way to check ability power of a caster (pretty sure the same visual bug occurs for boarding hooks).

Strengthening herbs are increasing max hp by +30%, but it's still buggy.
After already proposed code change it should be good.
But somehow it doesn't show at all, so it's another visual bug.
This text generation for doc effects will need some change.

Oh, I see (actually I don't, because it's a visual bug ), should have tested their actual effects, instead of just the description, will do that now.

About tengri shaman: +1 range is evidently superior to +1 speed, but apart of that - valid points.
I only brought in suggested parameters and didn't think much of it - let's move the discussion to original topic:
viewtopic.php?f=374&t=12272

K, moving there to continue this.

As for nordic and slavic category - as the unit is fortunately affected only by part of effects - maybe it's not so big of an issue.
What exact combination would be imbalanced?

Battle Song + Adventure Song + Hero Song + Slowing Poison + Double Strike + Poison Weapon.
This (with Weaking Poison added to the list) is currently the strongest use for axe throwers in general btw, and makes them even better than Northern Axe Throwers because they can also deal a (slightly lower, but still) stupidly high damage per turn, but with only 2 cost instead of 3.

Herb protection is general, kind of keeping the setting, that healing abilities should be.

Fair enough.

For poison weapon - I thought to soon reuse it for other new supports.

Also fair enough, I think.

[b2198]

No, it still heals only 1 hp instead of 4, but does consider heal aff. properly (also is it intended that First Aid is applied to non-romans too?)

Also I see the bug with Strenghtening Herbs, when it ends it lowers the maximum hp to below original value lol.

It also changes incorrectly the current hp both on applying effect and when removing it, sometimes even causing the unit to die when the effect ends o.O

Also...


...and it died when buffed again

[Endru1241]

Battle Song + Adventure Song + Hero Song + Slowing Poison + Double Strike + Poison Weapon.
This (with Weaking Poison added to the list) is currently the strongest use for axe throwers in general btw, and makes them even better than Northern Axe Throwers because they can also deal a (slightly lower, but still) stupidly high damage per turn, but with only 2 cost instead of 3.

Ok. That's bad.

1st thing that comes to my mind is actually making hero song disperse double strike and vice versa.
But still double poison along with increased attack could be bad - any further propositions?

No, it still heals only 1 hp instead of 4, but does consider heal aff. properly (also is it intended that First Aid is applied to non-romans too?)

Also I see the bug with Strenghtening Herbs, when it ends it lowers the maximum hp to below original value lol.

It also changes incorrectly the current hp both on applying effect and when removing it, sometimes even causing the unit to die when the effect ends o.O

Sorry - it was me that didn't check intensely enough.
It works correctly when applied up to saving game.
But on load or applied since the start - it's not multiplied by abilityPower.
I'll have to change it to be constant after all.

Also...


...and it died when buffed again

Strengthening herbs are increasing max hp by +30%, but it's still buggy.
After already proposed code change it should be good.

We were working on it with stratego, like mentioned.
All hp changes need to be checked, but it should be ok now.

[b2198]

Ok. That's bad.

1st thing that comes to my mind is actually making hero song disperse double strike and vice versa.
But still double poison along with increased attack could be bad - any further propositions?

Some that come into mind would be (not all at once, just one or some of these, all would be too much I think):

• Make them either [Nordic] or [Slavic], instead of both. This would be the easiest way imo.
• Like you suggested, make hero song and double strike cancel each other, but on top of that, also make hero song and (battle song + adventure song) cancel each other and same thing for poison weapon and slowing poison (and probably weakening poison too, for future safeguard)
• Make either hero song or double strike (or both) not able to be cast on [Throwing], and same thing for poison weapon

Sorry - it was me that didn't check intensely enough.
It works correctly when applied up to saving game.
But on load or applied since the start - it's not multiplied by abilityPower.
I'll have to change it to be constant after all.

Oh, one more aura bug I wasn't aware of then, noted.

We were working on it with stratego, like mentioned.
All hp changes need to be checked, but it should be ok now.

Nice job there you two

[Stratego (dev)]

"Nice job there you two "
Actually it is 100% thanks to Endru ! thanks!
also uos already.

[Endru1241]

Ok. That's bad.

1st thing that comes to my mind is actually making hero song disperse double strike and vice versa.
But still double poison along with increased attack could be bad - any further propositions?

Some that come into mind would be (not all at once, just one or some of these, all would be too much I think):

• Make them either [Nordic] or [Slavic], instead of both. This would be the easiest way imo.
• Like you suggested, make hero song and double strike cancel each other, but on top of that, also make hero song and (battle song + adventure song) cancel each other and same thing for poison weapon and slowing poison (and probably weakening poison too, for future safeguard)
• Make either hero song or double strike (or both) not able to be cast on [Throwing], and same thing for poison weapon

Right - disallowing both Double Strike and Hero Song on throwing units is even nicer.
They still have their respective melee boosts (Poisoned Weapon and Battle Song) having some advantage over regular ranged units, but it's no longer game breaking.

[Aral_Yaren]

3 action... 6 range... chance increase... 8 turn... cheap production

This is a single game breaker unit imo. Converting armored siege unit and tower will be like kicking ball with more action and 6 range. And loyalty (contrary to popular believe out there) doens't purely counter conversion - it is just a play safe that unit doesn't fall to get converted. And it also give one more chance to redeem - which is very rare if the player is decent to save a single shoot to finish it. However up to this point it's still fine as legendary only 1 slot for player.

8 turn from a cheap priory, this is the main concern as with such "cheap cost for the prize" even without mines (as mines are currently well understood even among many medium players, that 8 turn is just tiny) that is considerably cheap.

I suggest to raise its cost to 10 (even the current 10 turn unit carrack/galleon doesn't act as game breaker) and move it special to monastery, before many player scream the unit (even just a single one) is way too OP and have to wait another update.

Thanks.

[Endru1241]

3 action... 6 range... chance increase... 8 turn... cheap production

This is a single game breaker unit imo. Converting armored siege unit and tower will be like kicking ball with more action and 6 range. And loyalty (contrary to popular believe out there) doens't purely counter conversion - it is just a play safe that unit doesn't fall to get converted. And it also give one more chance to redeem - which is very rare if the player is decent to save a single shoot to finish it. However up to this point it's still fine as legendary only 1 slot for player.

8 turn from a cheap priory, this is the main concern as with such "cheap cost for the prize" even without mines (as mines are currently well understood even among many medium players, that 8 turn is just tiny) that is considerably cheap.

I suggest to raise its cost to 10 (even the current 10 turn unit carrack/galleon doesn't act as game breaker) and move it special to monastery, before many player scream the unit (even just a single one) is way too OP and have to wait another update.

Thanks.

Well - current senator has 5 range, 2 actions and 70% chance. For cost 5 in similarly cheap factory.
So 8 turns for 6 range, 3 actions and 75% chance doesn't really seem like game breaking.
Even with the rest of bonuses it barely explains being unique.

Carriers are still very hard to convert.
Fortress or Siege Tower have 150% resistance, so that means even empty one cannot be converted by 3 actions.
And all carried unit resistance is added when calculating probability.
Get 1 priest with fervour + 2 longbowmen and that's another 165% of resistance.
Choosing cultural ones can bring resistance higher.
Many units can also use promote loyalty to boost it further or dismiss propaganda in case many lowered resist are stacked.

[Aral_Yaren]

Just to add that failed conversion decrease around 25% of resistance, and 100% in first try will be 75% in 2nd and 50% in 3rd of same turn - enough chance to open with current planned chance increasement, even 150% is relatively low seeing it will be below 100% next turn attempt. And we don't count how its Demoralise ability play either to hinder unit escapes faster or lower its resistance.

Also however much I like Senator from long time ago before his 2 actions, still I think it overshadows Priest conversion - true that the latter is cheaper and more accessible and can heal yet 2 Senator with 4 actions overshadow 3 Priest conversion.

Talking about Dismiss Propaganda, it isn't satisfying to remove Lower Resistance effect - it happened I needed 2 or 3 casting just to remove the effect. And seeing Lower Resistance last for 5 turn (that's long effect in MP), can Dismiss Propaganda remove totally Lower Resist effect? Or at least raise its value.

I need confirmation about Promote Loyalty. I remember it boosts resistance +25%, isn't it? Is there any positive value that raise the number for certain unit, or everything is affected equally 25%?

[DreJaDe]

That's an overestimation of Senators

Although statistics wise, it might OP but in reality it is not. It might have shadowed the priests conversion but really? Does that really matter?

Looking at the two overall, it doesn't really matter. But with the old stats? No way they are in the same level.

This comparison for me is like berserker and swordsman.

[Aral_Yaren]

Of course I overestimate Senator. I know how to use them.

Comparing ones with ability, and ones with melee attack and other with no ability is a blunder - no worry tho.

So like it said it doesn't matter.

As I ask to Leader's actually.