version 1.149

[Stratego (dev)]

version 1.148 is published

[godOfKings]

Wen i try to download dev version it only downloads ver: 1.147 not 1.148

I guess the new version is not uploaded yet, but i cant play multiplayer without the latest version

[Stratego (dev)]

sry, uos 5

[Stratego (dev)]

a new experimental Bridge building algorithm (made by b2198 - thanks!)

is uos already.

plese try.

[Stratego (dev)]

update uos 10

new version uos - with internal changes
- updated shoplist spell (like clone unit) handling
- updated maps definition json (ALL maps are defined in json! all removed from code - thanks to Endru!)
- in modded mode all texts are read from others/strings.xml

[SirPat]

a new experimental Bridge building algorithm (made by b2198 - thanks!)

is uos already.

plese try.

The AI bridge building is going well, I tested it on a map with small canals and the ai was bridging great and ive noticed they made stone bridges after i broke the original wooden bridges built, was that intentional? AI reinforcing bridges cause uts working well

[Stratego (dev)]

thanks!

bridge type is random

[phoenixffyrnig]

Wow, big changes! Good stuff, Dev and Endru.

The blacksmithery changes don't seem to be fully reflected in the upgrade tree - first slot underneath the blacksmith is the new Ranged Reach Lv1, but directly underneath that is the old Archer Armour Lv1. That is as far as I can see atm, but there do not seem to be any new slots in the tree for the two extra techs from splitting archery. (But I bet a barrel of a beer you already have this in hand and it will follow shortly )


Gun damage to be stopped by pierce armour - does this apply to cannon as well as small arms? If so, would this nerf cannon Vs high pierce armour units such as fortifications, rams and siege towers?

Also, if there is anyone running DEV version who fancies a game to help me get some gems please send me a PM - I am skint broke and therefore unable to afford any new things we should be testing

[Endru1241]

About ranged damage and reach - actually - it's just as explained in version log.
So in upgrade shop there is still archery lv1 and archery lv2, but unfortunately it shows other techs when clicked.
But it works, like it should - you can research both reach and damage (but no longer regular archery).

Only regular guns - handgonnes and pistols are affected by piercing change - cannons still deal melee damage (and have no additional effect going over armor).

[phoenixffyrnig]

(But I bet a barrel of a beer you already have this in hand and it will follow shortly )

Of course he has - top man

[Stratego (dev)]

reworked multiplayer chat.
- you can press a button to see translation of the entry
- you can click on player name to add as friend.
- chat moderation wokrs as earlier (translation button turns to X)

uos 5

[heroX]

Are you using Google Translate?

[Stratego (dev)]

yes, but not the API but simply opening a the translate.google webpage.

[SirPat]

I was testing the Gunpowder unit changes recently and ive noticed smt, The Late Hungarian Hussars Pistol shot can One shot a Spartan hoplite, same with the reiter pistol shot it could one shot units aswell. To be specific, It could one shot all foot infantry and cavalry and 4-6 shot elephants I believe. At that time I was checking the stats of the pistol shot ability and I dont think that was possible. Ill try to test it again later and recheck the values of the ability.

[Endru1241]

I was testing the Gunpowder unit changes recently and ive noticed smt, The Late Hungarian Hussars Pistol shot can One shot a Spartan hoplite, same with the reiter pistol shot it could one shot units aswell. To be specific, It could one shot all foot infantry and cavalry and 4-6 shot elephants I believe. At that time I was checking the stats of the pistol shot ability and I dont think that was possible. Ill try to test it again later and recheck the values of the ability.

Turned out, that related effect is multiplied by abilityPower too.
Elephant gets exactly 48 damage, so 10 reduced by 2 p.armor = 8. And it leaves exactly 40, so 4*10.
I'll try if RUN_RELATED_EFFECT_FIRST changes anything.

[Endru1241]

It fixed it.
Pistol shot, Handgonne shot and heavy sling shot were affected.

Thanks for noticing @SirPat.


Meanwhile - upcoming change (in the same version, but just send to stratego, so it's not in yet) additionally sets discussed construct longer build times.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Possibly similar cause to SirPat's issue

In a campaign, Knights were sonetimes doing counter damage to my gisarmamen even when the knight was getting killed.

Closer scrutiny showed this happened when my guys were doing a lot of HP damage, and that it wasn't happening when they were just doing small amounts of damage.

I tried a few things, I think what is happening is when the EFFECT_DAMAGE_ANTI_MOUNTED is coming into play then the knight is getting a counter-attack. If the hit was small enough such that the HP lost is less than the standard damage plus bonus then this does not seem to happen.

For units that have extra damage in Active Effects, the engine seems to count it as two separate attacks (the HP damage numbers show up twice, once for each type of attack, slightly superimposed) and my guess is this mystery counter attack is slipping itself inbetween the two attacks.

[Stratego (dev)]

new update thanks to endru!

uos 5!

[Endru1241]

Possibly similar cause to SirPat's issue

In a campaign, Knights were sonetimes doing counter damage to my gisarmamen even when the knight was getting killed.

Closer scrutiny showed this happened when my guys were doing a lot of HP damage, and that it wasn't happening when they were just doing small amounts of damage.

I tried a few things, I think what is happening is when the EFFECT_DAMAGE_ANTI_MOUNTED is coming into play then the knight is getting a counter-attack. If the hit was small enough such that the HP lost is less than the standard damage plus bonus then this does not seem to happen.

For units that have extra damage in Active Effects, the engine seems to count it as two separate attacks (the HP damage numbers show up twice, once for each type of attack, slightly superimposed) and my guess is this mystery counter attack is slipping itself inbetween the two attacks.

It seems, that weapon effect is applied after counter.
Not sure if it should be considered as a bug or a nerf.
But anyway - it's better to create separate topic for that (in balancing forum, I think).

[phoenixffyrnig]

It seems, that weapon effect is applied after counter.
Not sure if it should be considered as a bug or a nerf.
But anyway - it's better to create separate topic for that (in balancing forum, I think).

They've already had a nerf though (or rebalance, if you rather), less overall attack, significantly less effect from buffs and an extra armour to some horses. I appreciate that was your intention in the first place, but perhaps this would be too much.

My guys were taking only 4 dmg in the above situation against knights. Against cavaliers, they would be half dead from killing the units he specialises against.

I also don't like the possibility of a double knock out situation.

I feel its a bit of a bug. I'm looking into the specifics of anti-cav V cav before I start a rebalancing thread.

Edit: what does "stronger with ability power" mean in practical terms?

[Endru1241]

Stronger with ability power means, that an effect uses abilityPower to achieve displayed damage (or other effect).
So if there is a buff or nerf to ability power it would change end effect.
E.g. High morale (and low morale) affects bonus damage, but celtic attack geass - don't.

[phoenixffyrnig]

I've just run a test with base halberdiers and elite pikemen Vs Shield Knight line plus selected elephants on both DEV and Public versions.

Interestingly, the change is minimal - for halberdiers the new ones are about 1 dam weaker Vs Heavy Cav Slow, 6-7 dam weaker Vs Elephants. Elite Pikemen have become ever so slightly stronger (+1 dam Vs HCS, +2 Vs Elephants) so I take back some of what I said about a nerf - that difference is negligible. Obviously how the buffs come into play is where the big changes are.

Stronger with ability power means, that an effect uses abilityPower to achieve displayed damage (or other effect).
So if there is a buff or nerf to ability power it would change end effect.
E.g. High morale (and low morale) affects bonus damage, but celtic attack geass - don't.

Sooo... ability power such as your example will modify the Active Effect damage, does that mean some things such as blacksmith and bard modify standard attack? Geass too? In other words, a two tiered buff system where the percentage multipliers are nearer two times 100ish rather than 450ish (Vs Heavy Cav for example) essentially nerfing anti cav by halving the effects of OP buffing? I like what you done there.

[Endru1241]

Yes.
It's mainly for decreasing effect of buffs.

Previously if you had 1 supportive unit with buff - you never needed to upgrade your anti-mounted units.
+3 buff gave 16 additional damage, +2 - 11, so why bother with 6 turns to upgrade to halberdier or elite pikeman if you get the same effect with sword mastery or stronger with a buff.
Right now however pikeman vs knight deals 23 damage (previously 24), while:
- sword mastery increases damage by 2/3, so total 5 (previously 11)
- attack geass by +10 (previously 27)
- battle song by +6 (previously 16, like mentioned before)
- morale by +4 (previously +5)
- upgrade to elite + 9 (previously +10)

But I see, that anti-mounted units are much easier to die when reach is researched.
I wonder if maybe ATTACK_FULL_COUNTER_IF_BONUS spec should given in addition or maybe as new research?
E.g. elite pikeman deals only 5 damage before receiving damage from cavalier and 19 after.
With ATTACK_FULL_COUNTER_IF_BONUS it would become 13 before and 19 after.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Hi @Endru1241 Seems to be some issues with igniting gunpowder units.
Elite cannon - I can ignite and attack in the same turn. Is this deliberate?
The ignited version can go into a wagon whereas the unlit version cannot.
There is no unignite ability

Hwacha - both lit and unlit versions go into a wagon
Also no unignite ability
Also can ignite and attack same turn.

(just checking) Turtle machine does not seem to have a lit and unlit version - presumably deliberate balancing issue related to your reply to me here http://www.ageofstrategy.net/viewtopic. ... 86#p130123 about it being a "monster in defence"?

[Endru1241]

Unlit versions are still only map units.
I haven't checked them so carefully, so there can be some mistakes (like being unable to be carried).
That's also the reason why normal versions are still capable to be carried and why there is no unlight ability - the change just didn't go trough this time yet.

Btw. Changes up to now:
Major recategorisation:
All units (and buildings) got added as many categories as possible to describe their similarities (mainly for tech, abilites and bonuses use). All containing categories are displayed now.
Categories: Melee Foot, Light, Medium and Heavy Melee got replaced by Irregular, Light, Medium and Heavy Infantry.
Ranged foot units were assigned those categories too (mostly light infantry).
Ranged mounted untis were mostly added light cavalry category.
Foot Polearm Weilders all have infantry categories now (so some bonus from archers, cavalry). Those previously "pure" Foot got HP boost and Light Infantry Category.
Armor categories added.
Bridges got Buildings category removed.
Ranged and Medium Foot rebalance:
All archer-like (archer, crossbowman, horse archer, fire archer etc. ) bonus damage vs medium and light melee +50%->+20% if shielded and +50%->+40% vs unshielded.
All gun shooting power decreased by 4, but given ability to deal additional 4 damage ignoring any armors. Main attack changed to be stopped by p. armor (instead of regular).
All heavy sling attacks power decreased by 2, but given ability to deal additional 2 damage ignoring any armors. Main attack unified to be stopped by p. armor.
All light sling attacks power decreased by 1, but given ability to deal additional 1 damage ignoring any armors.
Yumi Samurai bonus damage changed to only +50%->+25% vs unshielded medium and light melee. All other bonuses removed.
All skirmishers bonuses vs archers were changed to be also applied vs gunmen.
Throw pila ability new bonuses +20% vs medium melee, +30% vs light melee, +40% vs shielded medium melee, +50% vs shielded light melee.
All heavy infantry (legionary, spartan hoplite, foot knight etc.) bonuses against medium melee +50%->+30%.
Chakram bonus against medium melee +50%->+30%.
New ability:
Mistaken Geass - druids can remove geasses.
.

Change:Ambidexteria mend bonus +5->+3 and along with it increase of all affected units mend rate by the difference:
Blacksmith 4->6, Laborer 7->9, Miner 30->32, Worker and Elite 10->12, Shovel Peasant 4->6, Map editor tower Worker 15->17.
Change:Constructs buildable by workforce have longer build times. Build time follows general rule of needing 2x Cost worker actions (with ambidexteria) and 3x in case of ranged siege capable of movement. Non-mega factories have 1x. The only exception are because of rounding, e.g. Heavy slinger tower would need written cost of 3.5 with needing 7 turns, but has 4. Details :
Guard Towers 3->4, Crossbow and Longbow 4->6, Shooting Towers and Fortresses 6->8, Ballista and Cannon Towers 9->12, Heavy slinger/Handgonne 5->7, Fort 12->16
Wagons 6->8, Catapults 16->24, Hwachas 11->18, Ballistae 7->12, Rams 6->10, Mantlets 3->4, Siege Towers 6->14
Triremes 11 ->12, Ballista Ships 9->15, Catapult Ships 16->21, Cannon Ships 16->24, Great transports 9->8
Change:Archer armors is changed to Light armors and affects units with [Light Armored] category. Infantry armors affects [Foot][Medium Armored] and [Foot][Heavy Armored]. Cavalry armors affects [Mounted][Medium Armored] and [Mounted][Heavy Armored]. Also all three blacksmith armor techs lv2 cost 7->5.
Archery tech split:
Archery tech is no longer researchable (it is still possible to grant it with triggers).
New techs: Ranged damage lv1 and lv2 (+1 damage, 4/5 cost)
.
New techs: Ranged reach lv1 and lv2 (+1 range, 4/5 cost)

New techs are granted with archery gem upgrades.
Blacksmith techs affect change:
Yabusame is now affected by all archery blacksmith upgrades.
Mongol Horse Archer is now affected by all archery blacksmith upgrade.
Galleys (upgraded too) and caravels are affected by archery damage research.
Change:Ballistaria and Garrisoned Keep don't affect towers with Artillery category (Ballista Tower, Cannon Tower).
Change:Sword mastery lv2 cost 7->5.
Change:Corsair Sell Other Ship now requires ships total cost of 4 to get merchant ship.
Change:Celtic Chieftain, Nordic Warlord, Crusade Leader, Roman Centurion and Teuton Komtur have their Promote Loyalty set on 60%, instead of based on Ability Power. Should work the same.
Change:Wolf hole and caltrops don't have any miss chance anymore.
Change:Assasin no longer has deathtouch. Instead there is two new abilities:

Assasination - targets and kills flesh and blood unit in exchange of assasin destruction.

Assasination Sweep - targets construct carriers and kills all flesh and blood units inside in exchange of assasin destruction.
Attack power 6->5. P.Armor 0->1. Additionally regular attack (that no longer kills assasin) has now bonuses: +100% vs Ranged, +150% vs Support and Ranged Irregular units, +200% vs Healers, Leaders and Siege machines.
Change:Dashing assasin bonuses changed to be exactly the same as assasin, so changed: vs Ranged +200%->+100%, (->150% if irregular), additional +150% vs Support, +200% vs Leader.
Change:Ancient mercenaries leave after much longer time:
Cretan Archer leaving 4->9, Balearic Slinger leaving 5->9, Thracian Falxman 4->7.
Some more ranged units resilence changes:
Hospitaller armors 2/1->3/2, upg. 2/2->4/3.
Immortal Ranged armors 2/2->4/3.
Yumi Samurai armors 0/0->1/1.
Master Slinger attack power 6->5, but range 4->5.
Yabusame HP 23->30.
Melee infantry resilence buff and some damage correction: Axe Throwers armors 0/0->1/1., upg. 0/0->1/1.
Celtic Warriors armors 1/0->2/1., upg. 2/1->3/2.
Flailmen armors 0/0->1/1.
Gaelic Warriors power 10->11, HP 13->14.
Guerilla melee armor +1 (0->1, 0->1, 1->2).
Highlanders armors 0/1->1/2, attack 10->11.
Nodachi Samurais armors 1/0->2/1, attack 10->11.
Macemen armors 0/0->1/1, upg. 1/0->2/1, additional +10% damage bonus vs Medium Infantry.
Thracian Falxmen armors 0/0->1/1.
Varangians armors 1/0->2/1.
Raider archers armors 1/0->1/1, attack power 10->11.
Primitive Macemen attack power 7->8, HP 16->18.
Eagle Warriors armors 1/2->2/3.
Jaguar Warriors armors 5/3->6/4.
Aztec Swordsmen armors 0/0->0/1, HP 14->16, upg. 0/0->1/1, HP 18->20, attack 8->9.
Samurais armors 1/0->2/1, Hatamoto armors 2/0->3/1.
Swordsmen armors 0/0->1/1, attack power 8->9, Broad Swordsmen armors 0/0->1/1, attack power 11->12, Men-at-arms armors 1/0->2/1, HP 23->24.
Teutons are trainable from priory.
Viking Berzerks armors 2/0->2/1.
Wolf Warriors armors 1/1->1/2, HP 17->19.
Zweihander Wielders armors 0/0->1/1, upg. 1/0->2/1.
Crusade Swordsmen armors 1/0->1/1.
Crusade Veteran Swordsmen armors 1/0->3/2.
Change:Anti-mounted units benefit much less from buffs and techs adding to attack. Damage bonuses were significantly lowered and instead they have weapon effect adding damage vs mounted units. Overall damage (without any buffs and techs) are similar (a little lower vs elephants), but counter damage is increased. Bonuses were unified in groups:
-pure anti-mounted foot polearm weilders (e.g. spearman, pikeman) - +60% vs light Cavalry, +80% vs slow heavy cavalry, +90% vs medium cavalry and chariots, +100% vs heavy cavalry, +120% vs elephants. They are also getting bonus damage vs mounted equal to +ability power with bonuses +60% vs slow heavy cavalry, +100% vs medium cavalry and chariots, +140% vs heavy cavalry, +250% vs elephants.
-hybrid anti-mounted foot polearm weilders (e.g. armored spearman, voulgier) - +20% vs light Cavalry, +40% vs slow heavy cavalry, +50% vs medium cavalry and chariots, +60% vs non-slow heavy cavalry, +80% vs elephants. They are also getting bonus damage vs mounted equal to +ability power with bonuses -40% vs light Cavalry, +20% vs medium cavalry and chariots, +80% vs non-slow heavy cavalry, +150% vs elephants.
-pure lancers - +70% vs light Cavalry, +120% vs slow heavy cavalry, +105% vs medium cavalry and chariots, +125% vs non-slow heavy cavalry, +150% vs elephants. They are also getting bonus damage vs mounted equal to +ability power with same bonuses as hybrid anti-mounted foot polearm weilders ability damage.
-hybrid lancers - unchanged bonuses vs non-mounted, +40% vs light Cavalry, +75% vs slow heavy cavalry, +65% vs medium cavalry and chariots, +80% vs non-slow heavy cavalry, +100% vs elephants. They are also getting bonus damage vs mounted equal to +ability power with same bonuses as hybrid anti-mounted foot polearm weilders ability damage.
the only exceptions to this rule are units, that have combined damage higher vs some categories (currently only aztec spearman).
Polearm weilder foot units resilence increase and damage correction:
Armored Spearmen armors 0/1->1/1, power 8->9, elites armors 0/2->1/2, power 10->10.5, masters armors 1/2->2/2, HP 23->24.
Woad Spearmen armors 1/1->1/2, HP 15->18, power 7->8.
Ekrdromoi power 9->10.
Hospitaller Halberds power 8->9, elite power 10->11.
Macedonian Phalangites HP 19->23.
Billmen HP 19->21, armors 0/0->1/1, attack 9->11.
Pikemen HP 13->16, armors 1/0->1/1, attack 5->6, elites HP 15->18, attack 7->8.
Aztec spearmen HP 9->11.
Streltsy split to ranged (same hp, ranged categories, 6 attack, 6 range) and melee form . They have to transform to shoot. Also their melee attack 9->10.
Spearmen HP 11->13, armors 0/0->1/1, attack 4->5, Gisarmemen HP 13->16, armors 0/0->1/1, attack 5->6, Halberdiers HP 15->18, armors 0/0->1/1, attack 6->7.
Voulgier armors 2/0->2/1, attack 5->7, Svordst. armors 3/0->3/2, 7->9 attack .
Crusade Halberdiers armors 0/0->1/1, attack 8->9, HP 18->22 .
Crusade Armored Spearmen armors 0/0->1/2, attack 6->7, HP 14->16
Mounted melee units melee armor increase and power corrections:
Lancers - no longer any bonus vs foot units or archers, armors 2/2->3/2, attack 5->8, Heavy Lancers armors 2/2->3/2, 6->9.5 attack, Gendarmes armors 2/2->3/2, 7->11 attack.
Equites power 4->5.
Dromedarii power 6->7.
Auxilia Spearmen power 5->6.
Axe Knights armors 0/1->1/1, Elites 1/1->2/1.
Companion cavalry armors 1/2->2/2.
Crusade leaders armors 2/1->3/1.
Daimyo armors 3/3->4/3.
Hungarian Hussars armors 1/3->2/3, Late armors 2/3->3/3.
Hussars armors 0/2->1/2, Winged armors 1/2->2/2.
Knights armors 2/2->3/2, Heavy armors 2/2->3/2, Cavaliers armors 3/2->4/2.
Light cavalry power 5->6, bonuses +120%->90%, Elite power 6->7.5, bonuses +140%->90%.
Condotiere armors 2/1->3/1.
Centorions armors 2/1->3/1.
Stradioti armors 0/1->1/1, bonuses are exactly copied from elite light cav.( so removed anti-mounted bonus).
Norman lancers armors 2/2->3/2, HP 24->27.
Sipahi armors 2/0->3/0.
Mounted Templar Knights armors 2/2->3/2, Elites armors 3/3->4/3.
Teuton Komtur power 10->12.
Crusade Cavalry armors 1/2->2/2.
Crusade Knights armors 2/2->3/2.
Auxila Knights armors 2/1->3/1.
Mahouts armors 2/2->3/2. Bonus damage vs foot now only works on non-misc units.
War Elephants armors 1/2->2/2.
Change:Elephant trample bonus damage now affects only non-misc foot units.
Change:Chariots wheel blades damage now varies, depending on unit using it.
Chariot Archer - 5, Heavy - 5->6, Chariot - 5->6, Heavy - 5->7, Celtic Warchariot 5->8, Celtic Chieftain 5->8. Bonus damage now affects non-misc foot units.
Change:Peasants HP increased by about +50% (4->6, 5->7, 6->9, 7->10, 8->12) and slight attack increase for melee ones (+1), except warscythe.
Change:Hwacha has once again attack (with weapon effect) instead of ability. Power of weapon effect is equal to attack power. It is applied times x ability power, so normally there is attack + 3 x attack. Damage is decreased with power range just like before. Total possible damage on targeted unit is higher, but now can it can miss.
Change:All catapults (and Siege Mode Ballista) now have on default power range 1, but deal only 20-30% on area. Damage on area 2 tiles from hit ~11%->~24% and 3 tiles ~5.5%->~15% (if power range allows)
Change:Area Damage now affects all units of Catapult category - adding +1 (previously +2) to power range and +20% damage on area (additively, so e.g. catapult 24% becomes 44%) so presenting it multiplicatively it increaseas overall damage on area +66-83%. It also affects trebuchet now, giving it small 20% damage on area.
Change:All siege ships now uses action for movement.
Change:Cannon ships range 8->7.
Change:Triremes line cost 7->6.
Change:Catapult ship cost 8->7.
Change:Map editor units were also updates and changed. Some had significant stat changes.
Bugfix:Ballista Ship, Carrack and Corsair Ship could attack when garrisoned.
Bugfix:Double Cannon Ship had longer build time (by worker), than before upgrade.
Bugfix:Ninjas didn't have "Sees stealth units" even though they could see them. Didn't have flying, even though they had jumping over active effect.
Bugfix:Persian War Elephant had wrong carried units and didn't allow attack of carried units.

[Stratego (dev)]

to-be published version uos

some changes by Endru: please list here i forgot

also in code and others
- some changes on AI bridging (Endru: can i publish current?)
- the movement buffs debuffs changed based on a topic
- russian translation got updated.

[Endru1241]

Also:
- Guerrilla trainable in TC
- Added missing japanese category to tanageshima
- Reach tech also adds "Full bonus counter"
- Attempt to fix Capture the fortress multi-player scenario

Also added all previous changes in my last post.

It takes 5 normal scrolling gestures on my phone get through it!

[SirPat]

It took me 30 seconds to scroll that whole patch

And it took me like 20mins to read and understand all of it

[godOfKings]

its good change but in current mp games i will have to suffer with longer building cost and nerfed ranged archers against melee, nothing i cant live with though

[heroX]

Assassins can no longer OHKO a castle? (Only a unit inside will be killed.)