version 1.163

In this forum I post the changes on the DEVELOPER version of the game.
These versions are (at the time i post them) not yet published to google play, only registered testers can download it and test it before publishing.

Non-tester forumers: if you want to get the DEVELOPER version (to see the changes sooner, or you want to try your own map designs) please EMAIL me to zerotouchsystems at gmail dot com to register yourself as a tester.
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version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:00 am

version 1.162 is published few days ago

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:00 am

new update thanks to Endru!

uos 10

New units:
Tlatoani - mezoamerican leader. Skirmisher like, so initially most resistant against arrows among leaders, but weakest against melee. Provides high morale and additional aura unique to culture.

Taxiarchos - hellenic leader. Heavy infantry. Provides high morale and aura giving unique hellenic boost, along with activating 1 ranged protective aura on hellenic big shield bearers.

Noyan - steppe leader. Heavy cavalry.

New techs:
Cultural Assimilation - constant mental resistance bonus for all non-culture specific infantry and cavalry .

Cultural Promotion - small constant mental resistance bonus to all units and structures.

Mining change:
Mines start out with aura, that heavily damages all other mines in some area - it's to prevent too many of them on map.
Mines will also start out unusable with effect "Mine needs miners" effect - and each miner unit have new ability "Work in mines", that allows mine to produce, but sacrifices miner unit. It's to slow down increase of mines along with biger number of miners.
Change:Dismiss propaganda is split into 2 abilities - one for allies and one for the enemy - it's mostly for taking disadvantage from AI by stopping auto-cast Promote Loyalty removal.
Change:Nodachi Samurai can be trained by barracks.
Change:Hire Crusader can be researched by Priory.
Change:Crusade Leader has High Morale Aura added.
Change:Komtur has High Morale Aura added.
Change:Daimyo has High Morale Aura added. Can be recruited from TC, but requires Dojo built first. HP 45->42, attack 15->13, armors 4/3->4/2.
Change:Centurion requires Roman Garrison to be built first to be recruited in TC.
Change:Auxila Summons starts with cooldown and cooldown 6->7.
Change:Companion Cavalry mental resitance 0->25%. Aura additionally to attack gives +25% mental resistance.
Bugfix:Achamenid Archer unit mental resistance was mistakenly set as 0%. Corrected to 40%.
New Historical Campaign:True Japan Ruler thanks to Asus Rog!
New Campaign:Rise of Allara thanks to Gabriel!
New Random maps:European War 40x30
Bugfix:Advanced Legion Missile Command was supposed to be obsoletizing Legion Missile Command aura. Instead corrected range boost 2->1.

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:06 am

also in this pack the new AI is in - i might have messed it up so it will need some testing.

especially naval wars might not work - i will chck though.

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Re: version 1.163

Post by b2198 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:10 am

Wow, a lot of great changes are coming, I think I'll test them later today (Thursday). Nice :ok_hand:
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:06 am
also in this pack the new AI is in - i might have messed it up so it will need some testing.

especially naval wars might not work - i will chck though.
Are those the new debug options for AI? Did their behavior also change? I'll probably do some tests on it too.
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:03 am

not only debug options there were many AI flaws i have fixed, i try collecting them here

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:15 am

List of AI fixes:

moved the list to a new topic:
/viewtopic.php?f=156&t=13152

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Re: version 1.163

Post by b2198 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:15 am

Is Noyan supposed to have a heal? (he doesn't)
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:37 am

b2198 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:15 am
Is Noyan supposed to have a heal? (he doesn't)
Nope.
Just unlcleared remaining of copying json.
It doesn't change anything, but thanks for noticing - I'll set it to 0 to not be displayed.
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Re: version 1.163

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:42 am

Endru1241 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:37 am
b2198 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:15 am
Is Noyan supposed to have a heal? (he doesn't)
Nope.
Just unlcleared remaining of copying json.
It doesn't change anything, but thanks for noticing - I'll set it to 0 to not be displayed.
actually it does - all heal rates in carrier with even 1 heal rate are combined for giving even higher heal rates.
If you put this guy with 8 heal rate into tc with 4 heal rate than tc in result will have a total of 12 heal rate.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:08 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:42 am
Endru1241 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:37 am
b2198 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:15 am
Is Noyan supposed to have a heal? (he doesn't)
Nope.
Just unlcleared remaining of copying json.
It doesn't change anything, but thanks for noticing - I'll set it to 0 to not be displayed.
actually it does - all heal rates in carrier with even 1 heal rate are combined for giving even higher heal rates.
If you put this guy with 8 heal rate into tc with 4 heal rate than tc in result will have a total of 12 heal rate.
Are you sure?
Last I tested carrier healing (no sooner than few months ago) it was changed to (or added) some constant value, that worked as long as any unit with heal rate was present.
But it's true - I forgot, that it does change things.
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:14 am

i also think it is some constant - eg. double or triple heal rate (of building) or something.
not related to the healer power as i remember.
but i can be wrong.

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Re: version 1.163

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:59 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:14 am
i also think it is some constant - eg. double or triple heal rate (of building) or something.
not related to the healer power as i remember.
but i can be wrong.
In aof it works this way.
Ettin with 1/400 hp and with maxed human healer who has 80 heal rate is healed for 96 hp.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Endru1241 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:31 pm

Just tested in AoS :
TC has 4 heal rate.
3 TCs, each hosting elephant with 1/120 hp.
In first there is templar (7heal rate), in second healer (10 heal rate) and on third - priest (20 heal rate).
All three TCs heal 20 hp.

When I upgrade one of the TCs (it has 6 heal rate then) - it heals 30hp instead.
So it probably means it works like:
If (carrier.isAnyCarriedUnitAHealer())
HealCarried(carrier.healRate*5)
else
HealCarried(carrier.healRate)
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:31 pm

actually i can change the logic if there is any good suggestion.
this current logic was some random idea - nothing really thoought tru.

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:57 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:31 pm
actually i can change the logic if there is any good suggestion.
this current logic was some random idea - nothing really thoought tru.
Please check if all variants have the same, as that is most important imho.
I think adding healRate of all carried is good.
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:13 pm

not sure what you mean but ui try to answer:
- it is a code logic so every alternative have the same.
- adding healRate of all carried: what do u mean by this? to have a resulting heal rate like sum = building + unit1healrate + unit2healrate in building?

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:36 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:13 pm
not sure what you mean but ui try to answer:
- it is a code logic so every alternative have the same.
The one I posted (if any healer carried then carrier healRate*5)?
- adding healRate of all carried: what do u mean by this? to have a resulting heal rate like sum = building + unit1healrate + unit2healrate in building?
Yup.
But to be avoiding more shenanigans even better would be:
sum = building.healRate + unit1.healrate * unit1.remainingActions + unit2.healrate * unit2.remainingActions ...

Unless - you think that would be overcomplicating things, then just like you posted.
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:33 pm

yes, that latest seems a little complicated

but now i remember: i did the fix values to make bonus for weaker healers too as in a calm/protected environment (in a building) maybe they can heal better

but not sure it is ok generally.

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:38 am

last fixed before publish thanks to Endru.

uos already!

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Re: version 1.163

Post by b2198 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:36 pm

Is it intentional that taxiarchos don't have the [No Upgrade] category? It doesn't seem so for me, because without it they can get to at least 9/6 armor, which is the highest among any leader (excluding celtic chieftain with Geass:Survive)(also having as much maximum p. armor as Tlatoani, which is a skirmisher), and also as far as I can see, no other [Hellenic] unit is affected by blacksmith techs.

Also with cataphract now categorized as [Hellenic] and with the addition of taxiarchos, won't they become too strong, since they're now better than vanguard shield knight in armor, p. armor and (as before the change) mental resist (while only behind in damage by 1, 15 vs 14), and don't even require two 6-turns upgrades, while also being way more available (4 different factories vs 1)? Sure, they still cost 6, vs vanguard's 4, but before 1.163, they would only start to get obsolete in a match after like 25 to 50 turns, depending on the playstyle of whoever is using vanguards, and even then cataphracts would still be preferable against a conversion-heavy opponent (though this point has been slightly reduced with the conversion changes and additions).

Also also maybe the same point above applies to spartan hoplite too, when compared against elite foot knight?

Edit 2: I forgot about battlefield blacksmiths... but even then, they're kinda hard to properly utilize near the frontlines due to their 1 range on buffs. And they'd still only tie the comparison in terms of armor and p. armor, give a 4 damage lead (which is very good indeed), and do nothing about the mental resistance, so I think those points are still worth discussing.

Edit 3: Miscalculated the damage a bit, changed above
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:27 pm

b2198 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:36 pm
Is it intentional that taxiarchos don't have the [No Upgrade] category? It doesn't seem so for me, because without it they can get to at least 9/6 armor, which is the highest among any leader (excluding celtic chieftain with Geass:Survive)(also having as much maximum p. armor as Tlatoani, which is a skirmisher), and also as far as I can see, no other [Hellenic] unit is affected by blacksmith techs.
You are right - I missed it.
Will be added in next update.
Also with cataphract now categorized as [Hellenic] and with the addition of taxiarchos, won't they become too strong, since they're now better than vanguard shield knight in armor, p. armor and (as before the change) mental resist (while only behind in damage by 1, 15 vs 14), and don't even require two 6-turns upgrades, while also being way more available (4 different factories vs 1)? Sure, they still cost 6, vs vanguard's 4, but before 1.163, they would only start to get obsolete in a match after like 25 to 50 turns, depending on the playstyle of whoever is using vanguards, and even then cataphracts would still be preferable against a conversion-heavy opponent (though this point has been slightly reduced with the conversion changes and additions).

Also also maybe the same point above applies to spartan hoplite too, when compared against elite foot knight?

Edit 2: I forgot about battlefield blacksmiths... but even then, they're kinda hard to properly utilize near the frontlines due to their 1 range on buffs. And they'd still only tie the comparison in terms of armor and p. armor, give a 4 damage lead (which is very good indeed), and do nothing about the mental resistance, so I think those points are still worth discussing.

Edit 3: Miscalculated the damage a bit, changed above
Shield Knight is getting 40% of mental resistance with Cultural Assimilation, so that at least makes difference lesser.
I'd could also argue when it becomes obsolete - at fastest it's something like 15 turn (2 turns to build Stables with two workers at start +6 +6 for techs). Of course realistically it would be at least 20th.

But main point here is to not have any unit totally obsolete.

So what I am wondering about is what ability should I give to new unit (in next upgrade) - Lord Knight - a leader for culture-neutral units.
Or maybe some part of Taxiarchos abilities should be removed and only added with a tech?
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Re: version 1.163

Post by b2198 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:20 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:27 pm
Shield Knight is getting 40% of mental resistance with Cultural Assimilation, so that at least makes difference lesser.
Yeah, though without additional buffs, 125% resistance is still waay stronger than 65%, because it guarantees to block the first 2 attempts, while 65% still has a (low) chance of being converted, and a not-that-low (or even somewhat high, depending on what unit is converting) on the second attempt. But with the other changes, I think with some promote loyalties and/or fervor both are able to face converters without much trouble.
Endru1241 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:27 pm
I'd could also argue when it becomes obsolete - at fastest it's something like 15 turn (2 turns to build Stables with two workers at start +6 +6 for techs). Of course realistically it would be at least 20th.
I was also considering how many of both of them could be produced in the meantime with 1 stables. For example, at turn 15 you'd start your production of vanguards, but the opponent would already have 2 cataphracts, at turn 23 you'd have 2 vanguards and the opponent would have 3 cataphracts, at 27, 3 vs 4, at 31, 4 vs 5, and at 35 it would finally tie out, and after some more turns vanguards would take the lead. Now, surely, with more than 1 stables it could go way faster for the vanguards, with 2 (assuming you rush both stables and get the second one done in turn 4, and the first is responsible for upgrading), at 15, it would be 2 vs 3, at 19, 4 vs 5, and at 23 it would tie out. So, realistically, unless your opponent goes full stables early on (while somehow rushing the cavalry techs in blacksmith) I'd say at least 25 turns would be required for vanguards to start being considered a better option (when not facing a conversion-heavy army).
Endru1241 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:27 pm
So what I am wondering about is what ability should I give to new unit (in next upgrade) - Lord Knight - a leader for culture-neutral units.
Or maybe some part of Taxiarchos abilities should be removed and only added with a tech?
I think the Lord Knight option would be better overall, instead of nerfing Taxiarchos. As for its abilities, I gave some suggestions on it in its topic (though those numbers might have to change)
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Sombrar +1 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:32 pm

Is Knight Squire actually only being affected by "Cultural Promotion" instead of both or maybe it's a bug in mine?

As I also saw that some neutral units are affected by both mental resistance technologies and others only by one, actually how exactly does the separation of units that are affected by one or both technologies?

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:44 pm

Sombrar +1 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:32 pm
Is Knight Squire actually only being affected by "Cultural Promotion" instead of both or maybe it's a bug in mine?

As I also saw that some neutral units are affected by both mental resistance technologies and others only by one, actually how exactly does the separation of units that are affected by one or both technologies?
All units affected by Cultural Assimilation should have new category added "Culture Neutral".
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Sombrar +1 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:52 pm

So the question is this, the Knight of the Shield does not have this classification, by the way, sorry for the question, I ended up forgetting that you had already said how the division would work :D

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:14 pm

Shield Knight - you are right. I forgot to add the category to this line of units.
Will be fixed in next update.
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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:19 pm

quick fix will go to google play:
uos already!

Bugfix:Stronger Hulls and Auxila Summons were mistakenly left as members of "All techs" setting.
Bugfix:Shield Knight line didn't have Culture Neutral category.
Bugfix:Taxiarchos didn't have No upgrades category.
Crashfix:Taxiarchos aura crashes are fixed (part 1)

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Re: version 1.163

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:55 pm

it is out in google play but accidentally with 1.1621 instead of the actual 1.1631

whatever.

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