Terrain . new terrains joins IMPLEMENTED

[DreJaDe]

Here's my idea

What if we remove the grass border to some of the terrain. Like for example, the grass part in sand terrain. So that terrains could be used in a more versatile way.

What I mean in border is like in sand terrain is when grass and sand intersect, there will certainly be a block where both sand and grass exist.

I know it's not possible for terrains to be over each other so here's what think

a. Program it so that it can be possible. (Btw I don't know programming)

b. Make the border terrains as decor so that they can be put on top of each other type of terrains.
Pro: More versatile map making
Cons: it'll be impossible to put real decor on the border parts of the terrain s since its a decor now

There is another way to do this also, which is to just add other border. Like snow bordering sand, sand bordering ash etc.
Pros: A really good selection in terrains for map making
Cons: takes time to do (programming) and the whole drawing itself.

[Endru1241]

I don't follow - where, when, how would removing optional, really great feature increase versality?
Right now every border between one terrain type and the other exist as separate tile - they are just not shown on the list.
When autotiling is turned on (default state) regular full tile terrain tile is swapped border tile (according to defimition).
So what do you really mean, maybe post some screenshot example?

[DreJaDe]

I don't follow - where, when, how would removing optional, really great feature increase versality?
Right now every border between one terrain type and the other exist as separate tile - they are just not shown on the list.
When autotiling is turned on (default state) regular full tile terrain tile is swapped border tile (according to defimition).
So what do you really mean, maybe post some screenshot example?

Here

What I mean is that like shown in the pic (With blue lines). Is the terrain border. What I'm saying is that most border is only.available to grass for example is the is as shown in the pic (the ash bordering grass, sand bordering grass). Because of this you cannot border other type of terrain (like ash to sand or snow to sand as shown in the pick).

In thought that if we remove the said border of grass in the terrain assets (Grass border) and make the sand (can be others) border tiles to be able to be put as decors (I'm ok with other suggestions with this), we would be able to put them in other type of terrain.

As you can see in the pic, with the right red arrow, I wasn't able to put the sand tiles against snow tiles, the best I can do for now is connect them like shown under it.


The other option is just drawing every possible border between terrains which is what this game lack. Yeah, most terrain only connects to grass. The other is water to sand.

Back to the topic, this another option if programmed ok we would be able to connect other terrain type (except grass because it's already available) to each other.

[Endru1241]

Oh, I see.

It's certainly a problem.
The third solution seems best, as there is not that much terrain types.
Every possible combination of two terrain border can be done quite easily, comparing to potential coding time of 1st solution.

There is a huge disadvantage in the current system though - it has no way to use three or more terrain join definitions, but possibility to add this is much greater, than total rebuild of system.

As for 2nd one - decoration borders - I don't like the idea. Too limiting, like You already noticed.

Can you please list all missing combinations (that would be ever used - icewater in the center of desert doesn't seem needed)?

[DreJaDe]

With the current terrain, it would be dessert and snow (it happens), volcanic and snow (common in mountains) and Water and volcanic.

Also the forest and sand.

I think that's the current terrain that doesn't share borders to each other.

If possible, deep water could be connected to land but it's ok on if it's not on this, it's understandable.

[Endru1241]

So pretty rarely used combinations.
Most of it can be done when I'll have time.
Two things to notify though:
-Forest ia deprecated. Decoration layer trees should be used instead.
-Deep water has special movement bonuses, restictions and should be used considering that, e.g. bridges cannot be build on it. It represents deep sea.
So deep sea and various land combinations can be put on hold.

[DreJaDe]

So pretty rarely used combinations.
Most of it can be done when I'll have time.
Two things to notify though:
-Forest ia deprecated. Decoration layer trees should be used instead.
-Deep water has special movement bonuses, restictions and should be used considering that, e.g. bridges cannot be build on it. It represents deep sea.
So deep sea and various land combinations can be put on hold.

I think, the reason why it's rarely used is because they're not available thus, not even worth considering.

In the campaign I made, I easily run out of terrain combination to use when I'm experimenting.

If it's possible, can I try doing some of the terrain combination. I think I have chance.

[DreJaDe]

Well, I can't seem to find the grass and other terrain in the assets. Can only stuff like water and sand, volcanic and grass but no OG grass and desert or the others

[Endru1241]

I mean pretty rarely, as in nature.
E.g. volcanic doesn't look like it would be adjacent to snow. Maybe some tile or two of grass or rocky terrain between them.

Grass graphics and few others oldest ones are in terrain_v2 in main gfx folder.
But those in terrain subfolder are arranged on file, like it ahould be now (easier definition).

[DreJaDe]

Well, for me they do. I just don't know what to search like what is the volcanic terrain really is to see what it looks like with snow IRL.

I'm just finding the terrain files on the dev version when I change the APK to zip file. That's where I couldn't see the other terrain.

[DreJaDe]

I tried this one, the border for volcanic and water
If this is accepted then I would just need to change the other parts to complete it.

[Endru1241]

There is one small problem - as we have no way of making three terrain join definition, we already have misfit in case of terrain:
water water water
desert water desert
desert water desert
grass water grass
It looks especially bad, as desert water looks like waves hitting the smooth shore (like your volcanic - water join) and grass-water is a cliff.

So imho volcanic-water would better use cliff version.

Or just make them all cliff and create new terrain type - shallows which will use similar smooth join graphics and new movement type e.g. like icewater.

[DreJaDe]

I don't understand that much but I think the tri joined terrain is already a problem now

Well, I tried making it a cliff

[DreJaDe]

There is one small problem - as we have no way of making three terrain join definition, we already have misfit in case of terrain:
water water water
desert water desert
desert water desert
grass water grass
It looks especially bad, as desert water looks like waves hitting the smooth shore (like your volcanic - water join) and grass-water is a cliff.

So imho volcanic-water would better use cliff version.

Or just make them all cliff and create new terrain type - shallows which will use similar smooth join graphics and new movement type e.g. like icewater.

Wait, do you mean that to just make a cliff and like a shore version?

[Endru1241]

Not exactly.
I mean the shore could be left for future shallows terrain type join, because realistically speaking - if water was regular depth - there would be a cliff.

[DreJaDe]

Not exactly.
I mean the shore could be left for future shallows terrain type join, because realistically speaking - if water was regular depth - there would be a cliff.

So, is the cliff version for the volcanic water ok? So that I could continue it or do you have other plans for this?

[Endru1241]

Yes.
That's my idea - all terrain joins with water should be cliffs.
If it takes you some time - please don't bother doing it.
For me it's 5-10 minutes in gimp to make the whole terrain join image (I already have a file with proper layers, so it's only select all non-transparent on ground layer and fill with copied volcanic sample, maybe cliff color change too).

[DreJaDe]

Ok.
It takes longer time for me so I guess I'll left this to you.

[DreJaDe]

Since I have time, I have decided to help atleast.

[Endru1241]

I also made volcanic - water cliff.
And snow on desert, snow on volcanic, volcanic on desert (and volcanic on snow, but it'll be unused) - those are a little too big to post here and I don't want to use any hosting service.
I'll made the definition and put it in the pack.

[makazuwr32]

can you share them so we can add it to aof?

[Endru1241]

can you share them so we can add it to aof?

Yeah, sure - stratego will copy them from my pack, like few earlier, also added by me.
I just cannot post them here, because size limit (they have maximum compreesion already set).

[makazuwr32]

Alas i think we will keep old sandy and snow beaches probably.