"Infinite tall" wall and cave wall

[Stratego (dev)]

As i have introduced this phenomenon (a wall that is infinite=reaches the ceiling, like being in a room or in a cave see here: viewtopic.php?f=216&t=7627&start=60#p135676)
we need to talk about which tiles will get it.

In my original plan was these tiles/"unit tiles" in AOS and AOF:

unit layer tiles:

cave_wall_small_grey.png (2.26 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

cave_wall_small.png (2.33 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

terrain layer tiles:

room_wall.png (2.63 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

but i am afraid of current already in game maps.
what do u think is there any map that will get "ruined" if we turn on "infinite wall" on these tiles? or they are already used like such walls (i think in most cases yes) so no problem we set it - only problem can be if the map got impossible without shooting over these walls.
so what u think?
(now i talk about only AOF and AOS, in other alternatives we will check later)




Maps checking


16: this means the brown wall
17: this means the grey wall (the end of the ID)

AOF
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aof\16

cave_wall_small.png (2.33 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_assassination_orders_19_31.map
camp_user_heresas_ending_35_35.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aof\17

cave_wall_small_grey.png (2.26 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_death_lair_40_40.map
camp_user_extra_10_20_20.map
camp_user_the_dream_40_40.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aof\random16

cave_wall_small.png (2.33 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_khebesiris_borderlands_huge_40_40.map
camp_user_sacred_forest_big_35_35.map
rnd_2v2_format_adverse_18_18.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aof\random17

cave_wall_small_grey.png (2.26 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_ruins_of_aspenimahos_50_50.map
camp_user_sacred_forest_big_35_35.map
rnd_1v1_format_adverse_9_9.map
rnd_1v1_format_challenge_9_9.map
rnd_2v2_format_adverse_18_18.map
rnd_2v2_format_challenge_18_18.map
rnd_3v3_format_challenge_36_36.map
rnd_colossal_adverse_50_50.map
rnd_labyrinth_f1_40_40.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aof\terrain wall tile? or the other? dont know please help.

Hearthstead - maybe
Abandoned City
Ruined City
Ruins of Asp.

Under Siege
Grey Heavens
Labyrinth
Great Mountain Chain
Mansion



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aof\terrain tile - random map

room_wall.png (2.63 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_battle_of_forts_40_40.map Need to replace brick tile with different one.
camp_user_khebesiris_borderlands_normal_30_30.map need to replace both brick wall tile and Cave wall unit with different tile and different new wall that will not prevent shooting and such.
camp_user_path_of_three_25_33.map need to replace brick wall tile with different one.
camp_user_the_shrine_protector_25_25.map
rnd_helms_deep_50_50.map
rnd_icy_hot_40_40.map
rnd_mistshore_20_20.map
rnd_riverspire_province_40_40.map
rnd_the_arena_20_21.map
rnd_the_grand_fortresses_30_30.map
rnd_the_shire_20_20.map
rnd_the_tombs_15_20.map
rnd_under_siege_20_11.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aof\terrain wall tiel - camapoign maps

room_wall.png (2.63 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_battle_of_the_dark_25_25.map
camp_user_moria__the_tomb_of_balin_20_20.map
camp_user_revolution_20_20.map
camp_user_the_descent_20_15.map
camp_user_tutorialsummoning_5_20.map



AOS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aos\16

cave_wall_small.png (2.33 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_1_erias_field_17_17.map
camp_user_2_trial_of_har_etzmavet_23_23.map
camp_user_4_recovery_of_eria_35_35.map
camp_user_5_battle_of_heugea_17_30.map
camp_user_7_choukou_tairamitsu_25_30.map
camp_user_8_northern_village_17_17.map
camp_user_upon_a_shattered_throne_50_21.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aos\17

cave_wall_small_grey.png (2.26 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_2_trial_of_har_etzmavet_23_23.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aos\rnd16

cave_wall_small.png (2.33 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_battle_of_arlington_33_33.map
rnd_estuary_of_kings_29_29.map
rnd_paper_lorica_35_35.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aos\terrain tile - random maps

room_wall.png (2.63 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

rnd_ancestors_50_50.map
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aos\terrain tile - campaign maps

room_wall.png (2.63 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

camp_user_assassination_15_10.map
camp_user_a_bug_30_30.map
camp_user_christmas_2015_35_35.map
camp_user_common_enemy_25_25.map
camp_user_end_of_the_empire_20_20.map
camp_user_freeing_chandpur_25_30.map
camp_user_jorek_the_ruffian_15_15.map
camp_user_poyraz_the_illusionist_16_16.map
camp_user_richard_the_deathdefying_15_15.map
camp_user_save_freedom_2015_30_30.map
camp_user_sero_the_swift_17_17.map
camp_user_the_fall_30_30.map
camp_user_the_flames_of_revenge_40_25.map
camp_user_the_verge_of_despair_30_25.map
camp_user_upon_a_shattered_throne_50_21.map
camp_user_vasily_the_mountain_18_18.map

[DreJaDe]

I'm confused. What do you even mean?

[Stratego (dev)]

see here:
viewtopic.php?f=216&t=7627&start=60#p135676

[makazuwr32]

In aof specifically:
Tiles related — yes we will get many maps ruined with it.
That tile in many cases does not represent infinitely tall wall.

Regarding unit type walls:
Yes it also might affect some maps in not that good way — for example Khebesiris Borderlands Huge map (40x40) and labyrinth maps (those use cave walls a lot and it will break quite heavily gameplay for ranged races like elves and undeads).

[Stratego (dev)]

ok i check how many of the maps uses those cave walls .
maybe i check the terrain too.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok i checked and not that many, here are all:

16: this means the brown wall
17: this means the grey wall (the end of the ID)

AOF

aof\16
camp_user_assassination_orders_19_31.map
camp_user_heresas_ending_35_35.map
aof\17
camp_user_death_lair_40_40.map
camp_user_extra_10_20_20.map
camp_user_the_dream_40_40.map

aof\random16
camp_user_khebesiris_borderlands_huge_40_40.map
camp_user_sacred_forest_big_35_35.map
rnd_2v2_format_adverse_18_18.map

aof\random17
camp_user_ruins_of_aspenimahos_50_50.map
camp_user_sacred_forest_big_35_35.map
rnd_1v1_format_adverse_9_9.map
rnd_1v1_format_challenge_9_9.map
rnd_2v2_format_adverse_18_18.map
rnd_2v2_format_challenge_18_18.map
rnd_3v3_format_challenge_36_36.map
rnd_colossal_adverse_50_50.map
rnd_labyrinth_f1_40_40.map

AOS

aos\16
camp_user_1_erias_field_17_17.map
camp_user_2_trial_of_har_etzmavet_23_23.map
camp_user_4_recovery_of_eria_35_35.map
camp_user_5_battle_of_heugea_17_30.map
camp_user_7_choukou_tairamitsu_25_30.map
camp_user_8_northern_village_17_17.map
camp_user_upon_a_shattered_throne_50_21.map

aos\17
camp_user_2_trial_of_har_etzmavet_23_23.map

aos\rnd16
camp_user_battle_of_arlington_33_33.map
rnd_estuary_of_kings_29_29.map
rnd_paper_lorica_35_35.map

[Stratego (dev)]

if anonye volunteers to check if these maps might have problem if the cave walls turn to non overshotable or over "spellable" would be awesome - if not i will run tru them.

remark: in AOF they are currently like that.

thanks!

daniel

[b2198]

Is this in AoS dev version?

[Stratego (dev)]

not yet, also in AOS no unit is set to be that (so caves are not yet set there)

you need it for some reason, or you would check the maps when it is already set?

[makazuwr32]

ok i checked and not that many, here are all:

16: this means the brown wall
17: this means the grey wall (the end of the ID)

AOF
aof\random16
camp_user_khebesiris_borderlands_huge_40_40.map

aof\random17
rnd_labyrinth_f1_40_40.map

These two maps are quite broken with updated walls.

[b2198]

not yet, also in AOS no unit is set to be that (so caves are not yet set there)

you need it for some reason, or you would check the maps when it is already set?

Would be just for checking, but since it isn't applied to any unit yet it doesn't make sense right now. I can't test in AoF because I don't have its dev version (and wouldn't make sense for me to have it, since I don't even play the public version lol)

[Stratego (dev)]

ok!
in aof it is out in public version though

[b2198]

Oh, I thought it was in dev version only, will download it to test later then.

[diesel]

having pounded these maps to death (just speaking from AoF), i highly support the change for all 3 tiles

most brick walls are used as rooms and thus are essentially broken *now* - shire, mansion, abandoned city for example will function as designed

labyrinth included: its so open its actually a bit boring when cave walls only stop mvmt, at least now some strategy is involved otherwise its no different than a redecorated forest map

if there's any that "break" they can be very easily edited

im about to check each map for the cliff fix anyway, if interested i could give you a full report by friday at the latest

[diesel]

However, it would then be nice to have a wall tile that actually *is* just a wall. for instance an unattackable version of castle wall or similar would be wonderful (without player color shield)

[Stratego (dev)]

having pounded these maps to death

you mean they are all (AOF campaign maps) working fine after the change?

[Harchie Hirondo]

Also, aside from not being able to attack through them, could we also be able to not see through them?

[Stratego (dev)]

that is hard

[DreJaDe]

Can there be a limit to it?

Like only an x amount of range will this affect... So finally, walls can have this.

[Stratego (dev)]

range? what u mean?

[Midonik]

If the walls can, instead of reducing range by 100% (not allowing units to shoot through them), reduce it by a lower percentage, or maybe a set amount, so that units would have less range when attacking through an obstacle with that spec action.

[diesel]

having pounded these maps to death

you mean they are all (AOF campaign maps) working fine after the change?

1 -- I found no MULTIPLAYER maps to be ruined (this includes the brick tile also)

"working fine" is a matter if opinion, like maka says there is a major change to Khebesiris and Labyrinth. My opinion is it is an improvement

so i am saying several maps WILL change, but that is neither bad nor unfixable

2 -- determining if CAMPAIGN and scenario maps are affected will take much longer, several are already broken so that should not affect your decision. again, quick fixes

however we need then a *finite* normal wall also available

[diesel]

If the walls can, instead of reducing range by 100% (not allowing units to shoot through them), reduce it by a lower percentage, or maybe a set amount, so that units would have less range when attacking through an obstacle with that spec action.

I'm sorry i dont like this, walls are solid objects

[Midonik]

When I say "thru" what I mean is "over". Also I'm just explaining what Dre is asking (although I got it wrong), I don't think that can be coded easily.

[DreJaDe]

range? what u mean?

Like, let's say if units are 1 tile away from walls they can't be hit nor hit using arrows coming from the other side.

[diesel]

When I say "thru" what I mean is "over". Also I'm just explaining what Dre is asking, I don't think that can be coded easily.

oh i get what u mean - two wall options would solve that

could we not make an unattackable version of human castle wall to use?

[Stratego (dev)]

If the walls can, instead of reducing range by 100% (not allowing units to shoot through them), reduce it by a lower percentage, or maybe a set amount, so that units would have less range when attacking through an obstacle with that spec action.

not yet, any in-between cases are not yet in and maybe only in unity version will be.

this is ONLY for the "room" like or "in-cave" like walling where the wall reaches the ceiling - i called it infinite wall.

[b2198]

@Stratego (dev) This is what I meant with bresenham being orientation-dependent:

[Stratego (dev)]

i see, maybe i shuld order the start and end locations so the result will be the same this case?
like ordering to start with top-left closer point of the line to draw to the other point?

[b2198]

i see, maybe i shuld order the start and end locations so the result will be the same this case?
like ordering to start with top-left closer point of the line to draw to the other point?

That would solve this issue, but wouldn't be intuitive at all for players trying to know from where they can shoot.