Gameplay related

[godOfKings]

but if restricting ai buildlist is too difficult, then one other thing we can do is expand player's default unit list to effectively counter some of the units current default list cannot counter, but that will also require much research, time, effort and experimentation to identify the main imbalances

[Endru1241]

Default galley counter is trireme, which can be trained by TC and workers.

But I agree, that default AI for easy campaigns shouldn't make difficult to counter units.

Expanding default player list is not a must imho.

[Stratego (dev)]

Most base AI levels I can imagine are:
- no upgrades at all (easy)
- the same upgrades as player (medium)
- all upgrades (hard)
- all upgrades + some bonuses (super hard)

But above that I was also thinking of thematic AI types:
-Roman
-Egyptian
-Primitive
-Barbarian
-Nordic
-Nomadic
-Crusader
-Muslim
-Religious
etc.
It would be great if thematic types could be also used in skirmish.


Lastly some configuration of detectable area of action would allow for more fitting AI:
- Only 1 turn action detect (guardian type)
- no action (neutrals, being AI/player allies)

i see you prefer of restricting buildable units only.
i feel that is not the right way thinking only in unit restrictions.

[Stratego (dev)]

main problem with ai having upgrades is that ai can research second and third tier units, and new players who have absolutely NO IDEA how stats and bonus works will give up simply because he uses basic swordsman while ai man_at_arms looks much cooler and stronger

another thing there are not enough anti-ship units in default army (i remember the only counter against galley i had in the beginning was converting with healer because i DID NOT unlock docks)

so, as endru mentioned, ai using upgrades doesn't incentivise players, but spits the word UNFAIR on their face if they do not buy the necessary upgrades (and they dont even know which are the necessary upgrades or where to find them now that upgrade list has become this huge)

"ai can research second and third tier units": exactly in easy AI it does not do it already! i will write the current work of AI-s but maybe i am opening a new thread - it is not the right way here.

"another thing there are not enough anti-ship units in default army": very good! please open a new topic so we can make a default anti ship unit!thanks!

"so, as endru mentioned, ai using upgrades doesn't incentivise players": ok i will think of able to turn off this in Ultra Easy AI level.

[godOfKings]

the only default unit is trireme and it is too expensive especially if no tc is situated near bank

[Stratego (dev)]

that is why i asked a new topic to make new one if needed (but if trireme is default than maybe that can the one)

[Endru1241]

i see you prefer of restricting buildable units only.
i feel that is not the right way thinking only in unit restrictions.

Maybe I'm set on wrong thing.

My wish is to see two separate things:
1. Begginer level AI (no shop upgrades) being default for easy campaings. Optional medium level (having the same upgrades as player or some part of shop upgrades) being default for medium campaigns. It's mainly for the sake of newbies or playing around.
2. Settable theme (build restrictions, but it could allow normally unbuildable units) separate for AI and player.
Right now AI builds anything that is buildable (among normal units) - it completely ignores map granted settings. It completely ignores map restrictions. The only way to limit it is hard to make triggers. There is also no way to limit it in skirmish.
I think having a way to use some sort of theme would be great playing tool for skirmishes and really important in flavor making for campaigns/maps.
Races are not good for that, because it requires many more units and balancing. It is also too limiting.

Json based unit restrictions just seemed like easiest solution.

[Stratego (dev)]

"Begginer level AI (no shop upgrades) being default for easy campaings. Optional medium level (having the same upgrades as player or some part of shop upgrades) being default for medium campaigns. It's mainly for the sake of newbies or playing around."

i see but it is ("no shop upgrades", "same upgrades as player") still only about "what AI should build" so only about buildable units.

Settable theme

i saw this but this is totally out of AI difficulty topic

"it completely ignores map granted settings": this should be a bug, now you can restrict which player what to build - if AI does not check it than it is simply a bug, please open a topic to fix.

all you need here about themes i think is already implemented - it maybe buggy tough

[Endru1241]

i see but it is ("no shop upgrades", "same upgrades as player") still only about "what AI should build" so only about buildable units.

I am thinking mainly of limiting AI build options for easier difficulty, because that's the only problem - AI is already quite dumb when it comes to attack targets, movement, army positioning etc. Any additional disadvantage when it comes to AI action choice could make it retarded.

all you need here about themes i think is already implemented - it maybe buggy tough

You mean by triggers?
If so it's hugely time consuming.
There is also no way to set theme to skirmish though.

[Stratego (dev)]

time consuming: maybe, but that is more flexible than this. maybe that could be enhanced to be less time consuming, but this is definitely not a "difficulty" thing.
that is a theme thing -> i feel you are rather talking about "races" or "nations" in AOS (like your samples are not apply to AOF or AOW as those are already "themed" by nations)
am i right?

skirmish: what do u mean? why would someone select these themes on a skirmish game?

[Endru1241]

You are right - what I was really thinking about is races mechanics reworking to be applicable to AoS (core units being trainable by many races/nations).

What's more - I rethinked core AI issue - lack of begginer level and I believe it should also have limited actions.
Right now AI maybe bad, but when just few of it's inefficiencies are corrected it could be too good for newbies (or in some open maps).

[Stratego (dev)]

racces in AOS: it is pssible but only if we have enough buildings / units for the diffferent nations. and those are really "counts". so selecting a nations should really matter in things, even if we gve extra abilities by nation default (like all archers +1 range and so on) - but lets talk about it in proper topic - this topic was not ment to discuss anything only collecting topics discussed elsewhere

AI: same here lets discuss it in its topic.
(also i have uploaded for testing the "shopitem-less" AI in "Easy Ai", please try.)