Some sub speed doesn't make sense

[DreJaDe]

Submerged speed
2 speed
Sirene have 14 kph

3 speed
Shchucka 11 kph
I-400 have 12 kph
Type VII have 14.1 kph
I-1 have 15 kph
Gato have 17 kph
S class have 19 kph
Surcouf have 19 kph

4 speed
TypeXXI have 32 kph

Surfaced speed
3 speed
Sirene have 25 kph

4 speed
S-class have 25.5 kph
Shchuka have 23.2 kph
Calvi have 31 kph
Type VII have 32.8
I-1 have 33 kph
Surcouf have 34 kph

5 speed
Gato have 39kph

[DreJaDe]

I have listed all the speed of subs in game vs IRL and some of them don't make sense.

Sirene is 2 speed kn game even though it's as fast as other sub with 3 speed. It's even faster than 2 of the sub with 3 speed.

Sirene is also 3 speed even though its faster than one sub with 4 speed is almost as fast as another one.

@Jasondunkel
@Stratego (dev)
Pls check.

[TntAttack]

Up vote!

[HauptmannHorst]

Regarding the need to surface with some submarines I would like to ad that some of these types used a snorkel which enabled them to use their gas-engines while submerged. So no need to resurface after diving.

[DreJaDe]

Regarding the need to surface with some submarines I would like to ad that some of these types used a snorkel which enabled them to use their gas-engines while submerged. So no need to resurface after diving.

There are different interpretation of how surface and submerged subs works.

You could even say that since snorkel use are somewhat close to surface, it's already on surface level... I mean, you could actually see them even though they are still submerged because their snorkel produces waves that can easily be seen on the top of the water.

Though if we interpreted that as submerged, we should them slow them down to 1-2 speed because that's how it works and would be really OP against others. There should also be a limitation on their sight because they can't use their sound detection during this time.

This ways, I think this could be an ability and would most likely be just like my suggestion of a third transformation which was rejected.

[HauptmannHorst]

Snorkels were used at periscope-dept. The same dept as torpedo attacks were executed.

[HauptmannHorst]

Bit I get your point though

[Jasondunkel]

@drejede


I'm answering you here because it's about this topic.

as I said, I once took your speed values ​​and represent them as they should actually be

and check for discrepancies. I did and changed the discrepancies.

and I can not get more from this contribution

now that the data on the xls is correct, you can make another suggestion of how you want it to be.

and your statement:
"And there are speeds that are quite significant compared to each other, which is why I can't agree with that. Like 11 km to 17-19, that's a long way for me personally."

I agree that speed matters

But how much leeway do we really have? and your favorite submarine XXI with 34 km/h how fast should it be according to your statement if you complain about four tiles but is so much faster than the other submerged submarines?

[DreJaDe]

@Jasondunkel the main problem here is the inconsistencies in your math and reasoning that is affecting the balance.. Your reasoning is always so inconsistent. Another is that you're already forgotten that this is a game... In every action, there should be an appropriate thought to balance it out.

In this case, how much more OP is the type 21 now compared to others? Did you even properly think about that?

Sometimes, mass production is counted, sometimes it's not. And it's not helping to me that @Stratego (dev) will also give different reasoning each time for it which just confused me more.

Sometimes, it's the significance. I reasoned it out then somehow, its now how fast a single one is built, then I reasoned another with almost same speed, then the next is how fast all are built which btw, was said to be not considered anymore. Then somehow, it is again. Always with different reason until I can only give up.

Then somehow, after just one comment in chat about one ship being costly, it was so easily considered that I can only WTF in my mind.

Sometimes, math matters, sometimes not. And the biggest problem here is that it became inconsistent with the balancing that people still can't reply to me about.

And the most important part
Balance is always forgotten.

But how much leeway do we really have? and your favorite submarine XXI with 34 km/h how fast should it be according to your statement if you complain about four tiles but is so much faster than the other submerged submarines?

That's not the main problem here. Please don't get this wrong. The problem here is balance and that's the most important here.

If you're really going to push for this type of reasoning again, then please this time. Balance it out and make type 21 a 3 turn unit.

[Jasondunkel]

and where is the suggestion how you would like it to have the speed of submerged submarines?

[Stratego (dev)]

Drejade:
i feel the tone of some of your posts is not so nice against Jasondunkel, please be kind with him.
Also all the balance probems currently we have in AOW should be not be THAT bad (as we fixed the biggest problems already on the "balancing weeks"), so we can fine tune the remaining part in peace and with being kind to each other.

Jasondunkel naturally tries to keep balance, but dont forget these are a little "subjective" what is in balance and what is not, to be closer to objectiveness some case needs playtesting.
So it is ok that someone feel a smaller balance problem differently than the other person, it does not mean the balance is "forgotten".

"Sometimes, mass production is counted, sometimes it's not"
exactly: if we try to emphasize a remarkable thing that does not "force" us to make it anywhere else. so consider these a "flavour" of the game, all should be "historically correct" falvours but not needed for all unit types to inspected for such flavours, also we should not "compare" other units regarding of this flawour.
It is not a "bug" in game that one unit has a "flavour" setting but the other not.

so here are no strict rules, this is flavour.