A pocketful of observations

[phoenixffyrnig]

Sorry for posting up en masse, Endru, but all these are small issues barely worthy of separate posts, and won't take as much of your time all rolled into one

Possible balancing issues...
1) Ornithopters only take 1 damage from axe throwers and cannon ships. Is this deliberately like that to require archery units to counter? Just seems odd that a couple of stones can bring them down, but a hefty axe or a cannonball doesn't even scare them.
2) Rams only deal base damage to watchtowers (I guess because they are classed as structures, not buildings). Deliberately so? If yes, I can understand why.
3) Chariots - you can't see into an enemy chariot to see what (or even, if anything) is being carried. Personally I feel even stealth units should be visible in a chariot...it is an open vehicle and there is nowhere to hide
Also, unlike a ram or wagon with an individual unit inside, if a chariot dies, so does the unit it is carrying. (If this is to simulate the wreckage of a fast moving vehicle, then fair enough - but I just wanted to flag it up).

Couple of little problems to tweak...
4) A high castles trebuchet attack can target an invisible enemy stealth unit.
5) I seem to have this weird glitch where if I drag a square to select multiple units, I can no longer access my castles menus until I leave game and relaunch.
6) Had a strange experience the other day where a well placed wolf hole killed my wagon with a ram and lancer inside. The ram teleported back to where the wagon started from and survived...surely I should have lost everything inside the wagon in this instance?
7) New upgrade changes that apply extra speed (ballista & ram) or extra actions don't apply in the turn the research is complete, but the turn after (or possibly at the end of the players turn, which amounts to the same thing).
8) (Happened a long time ago, may have been adressed since) one fight involved my workers desperately trying to repair a castle that was being hurt badly until I could counter. Down to about 200 / 1000, I completed Masonry. This ADDED 500hp straight on to my battered castle (700 / 1500) - maybe saving my castle. Should the extra third of max HP instead be scaled onto current hp instead, giving 300 / 1500... seems fairer to me than an immediate "gift" of 500.

And one suggestion...
9) Can we have a "disable production" button for factories and TCs? It would make population control when at the limit a whole lot easier?

I know these are all quite small issues, but I also know how serious you guys are about constantly improving the game. Thanks for all your hard work

[phoenixffyrnig]

PS - let's make it a round 10)
I seem to be able to research galleon without having researched gunpowder.

Not a bad days work for a Sunday

[makazuwr32]

Sorry for posting up en masse, Endru, but all these are small issues barely worthy of separate posts, and won't take as much of your time all rolled into one

Possible balancing issues...
1) Ornithopters only take 1 damage from axe throwers and cannon ships. Is this deliberately like that to require archery units to counter? Just seems odd that a couple of stones can bring them down, but a hefty axe or a cannonball doesn't even scare them.
2) Rams only deal base damage to watchtowers (I guess because they are classed as structures, not buildings). Deliberately so? If yes, I can understand why.
3) Chariots - you can't see into an enemy chariot to see what (or even, if anything) is being carried. Personally I feel even stealth units should be visible in a chariot...it is an open vehicle and there is nowhere to hide
Also, unlike a ram or wagon with an individual unit inside, if a chariot dies, so does the unit it is carrying. (If this is to simulate the wreckage of a fast moving vehicle, then fair enough - but I just wanted to flag it up).

Couple of little problems to tweak...
4) A high castles trebuchet attack can target an invisible enemy stealth unit.
5) I seem to have this weird glitch where if I drag a square to select multiple units, I can no longer access my castles menus until I leave game and relaunch.
6) Had a strange experience the other day where a well placed wolf hole killed my wagon with a ram and lancer inside. The ram teleported back to where the wagon started from and survived...surely I should have lost everything inside the wagon in this instance?
7) New upgrade changes that apply extra speed (ballista & ram) or extra actions don't apply in the turn the research is complete, but the turn after (or possibly at the end of the players turn, which amounts to the same thing).
8) (Happened a long time ago, may have been adressed since) one fight involved my workers desperately trying to repair a castle that was being hurt badly until I could counter. Down to about 200 / 1000, I completed Masonry. This ADDED 500hp straight on to my battered castle (700 / 1500) - maybe saving my castle. Should the extra third of max HP instead be scaled onto current hp instead, giving 300 / 1500... seems fairer to me than an immediate "gift" of 500.

And one suggestion...
9) Can we have a "disable production" button for factories and TCs? It would make population control when at the limit a whole lot easier?

I know these are all quite small issues, but I also know how serious you guys are about constantly improving the game. Thanks for all your hard work

I can comment some of them:
1. Not sure about cannons but iaxe thrower as for me must deal full damage to ornithopter so as for me this is indeed a bug.

3. This if problematic of the engine: we can't physically make this or otherwise if we will make this to work as bridge (carried unit is shown) than you won't be able to select chariot itself until carried unit leaves chariot. This question must be asked for stratego.

5. You must deselect units before trying to get access to insides of buildings. Try to click once on free place.

7. Speed and bonus actions is bug of engine. Again question to stratego.

8. This is also question to stratego.

9. Good proposal. I like it but this must be discussed with stratego as well because he is the one who makes all changes in GUI.

That is what i know.

[godOfKings]

There is a game engine situation that all Flying units get only 1 Dmg from normal attack but full dmg from pierce attack in order to make flying immune to melee atk since melee atk is usually normal atk

[makazuwr32]

Actually in aof we made that melee units deal full damage to flyers as well. In modders lounge in units' Spe Actions topic there among options for units exists one that enables full damage for unit against flyers. Regardless of attack type and his range.

You can even make a wall that will deal full damage on counter, always strike its melee attackers first and deal full damage to ornithopters as well.

Better to look for you mpre carefully onto this, @godOfKings.

[AgentA]

3. This if problematic of the engine: we can't physically make this or otherwise if we will make this to work as bridge (carried unit is shown) than you won't be able to select chariot itself until carried unit leaves chariot. This question must be asked for stratego.

We can make it work like how we use Spy beside the Wagons and Rams to see what's inside. The carried unit doesn't need to be visually visible in map. Just make the enemy Chariot able to be double clicked to see the unit carried inside.

[makazuwr32]

That is not possible as well i believe by default.
It also will require stratego.

[AgentA]

That is not possible as well i believe by default.
It also will require stratego.

I don't understand what you mean by not possible by default. But we can already do it in AoS.

Example: Spy/Assassin standing adjacent to enemy TC, Wagon, or Chariot carrying a dog. You double click them like your own and you can see what's inside them.

So to implement this in logic, you have to modify some validation algorithm to permit any player to see what unit is inside a Chariot they don't own.
In other words, no need to verify if player owned the Chariot to view what's in it.

[makazuwr32]

I am pretty sure that this is not possible without extra things (i mean exactly ability to view insides of the chariot without extra things like spy/assasin).

How assasins enable view of insides of enemy tcs and such is different, made via SpecUnitAction:

Code: Select all

CAN_SPY_ENEMY_CARRIER, //can see the internals of enemy carriers

For now it is not possible to enable view of unowned unit's insides by itself and thus either requires some additional unit adjacent to chariot (owned by opponent) with specUnitAction that allows to look inside or Stratego to make such SpecUnitAction specifically for chariots.

[phoenixffyrnig]

There is a game engine situation that all Flying units get only 1 Dmg from normal attack but full dmg from pierce attack in order to make flying immune to melee atk since melee atk is usually normal atk

Does that mean thrown axes and cannonballs count as melee? Can't be right.

We can make it work like how we use Spy beside the Wagons and Rams to see what's inside. The carried unit doesn't need to be visually visible in map. Just make the enemy Chariot able to be double clicked to see the unit carried inside.

Exactly what I mean AgentA - it's two wheels resting on a bit of floor with some little walls around it. How can any unit be 'hidden' inside?! Is it not possible to rewrite the code for chariots to "assume" that an enemy spy is adjacent and show it's passengers? (Sorry, I'm not a tech guy at all)

[makazuwr32]

They are not melee but they deal melee type damage.
It would be much more strange if cannon ball will deal piercing damage (similar to arrow).

As for chariot — this requires stratego.

I am pretty sure that this is not possible without extra things (i mean exactly ability to view insides of the chariot without extra things like spy/assasin).

How assasins enable view of insides of enemy tcs and such is different, made via this SpecUnitAction:
SpecUnitAction:

Code: Select all

CAN_SPY_ENEMY_CARRIER, //can see the internals of enemy carriers

For now it is not possible to enable view of unowned unit's insides by itself and thus either requires some additional unit adjacent to chariot (owned by opponent) with specUnitAction that allows to look inside or Stratego to make such SpecUnitAction specifically for chariots.

Without this it is not possible to make chariots to work the way you want.

[phoenixffyrnig]

It would be much more strange if cannon ball will deal piercing damage (similar to arrow).

...soooo err, we ought to think of a cannonball as not so much a deadly weapon but more like getting hit with a football got to say Mak, I'm pretty tough... an ex rugby player and a manual worker all my life...but I'm pretty sure a cannon ball would pierce me!

I suppose I need to rephrase my original point 1 then...
1) should hard, fast footballs and large axes thrown by even larger men and do more than 1 damage to an oversized paper aeroplane?

[AgentA]

I am pretty sure that this is not possible without extra things (i mean exactly ability to view insides of the chariot without extra things like spy/assasin).

How assasins enable view of insides of enemy tcs and such is different, made via SpecUnitAction:

Code: Select all

CAN_SPY_ENEMY_CARRIER, //can see the internals of enemy carriers

For now it is not possible to enable view of unowned unit's insides by itself and thus either requires some additional unit adjacent to chariot (owned by opponent) with specUnitAction that allows to look inside or Stratego to make such SpecUnitAction specifically for chariots.

Oh I see now. So we really need to know from dev if feasible to make it in game engine.

[Stratego (dev)]

i checked in code and seems that you alredy can look into any carrier with the spy not only TC-s and factories, but you can look into wagons chariots too.

please confirm

[phoenixffyrnig]

Sorry Dev, I wasn't making my meaning clear. What I meant is that you should be able to see into enemy chariots without spies, because they are open vehicles with nowhere to hide
ie click on any chariot within your LoS and it will show you the unit inside.

Regarding axes and cannonballs doing only 1 dam to ornis, is it possible to work around the pierce attack/normal attack issue by giving those units a high bonus Vs ornithopters?

Presumably points 4 and 10 of my post are a simple fix? And 6 did seem pretty wrong to me even though it worked in my favour.

[Endru1241]

Sorry Dev, I wasn't making my meaning clear. What I meant is that you should be able to see into enemy chariots without spies, because they are open vehicles with nowhere to hide
ie click on any chariot within your LoS and it will show you the unit inside.

Regarding axes and cannonballs doing only 1 dam to ornis, is it possible to work around the pierce attack/normal attack issue by giving those units a high bonus Vs ornithopters?

Presumably points 4 and 10 of my post are a simple fix? And 6 did seem pretty wrong to me even though it worked in my favour.

Limited damage vs flying units already can be done by assets - there is no need to change the code. There even exists a handy switch CAN_HIT_FLYING.

If I won't forget I'll add this spec to cannons and axe throwers.

Edit: It's in the game.